--- Log opened Sat Nov 21 08:59:19 2009 08:59 -!- gmc [n=gmc@freenode/sponsor/gmc] has joined #foswiki-summit 08:59 -!- ServerMode/#foswiki-summit [+ns] by farmer.freenode.net 08:59 -!- Irssi: #foswiki-summit: Total of 1 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 0 normal] 08:59 -!- Irssi: Join to #foswiki-summit was synced in 0 secs 08:59 -!- pharvey [n=chatzill@124-168-216-61.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #foswiki-summit 08:59 -!- EugenMayer [n=EugenMay@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 08:59 -!- MTempest [n=chatzill@vc-41-18-187-152.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #foswiki-summit 08:59 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 08:59 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 08:59 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:00 -!- Irssi: #foswiki-summit: Total of 7 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 6 normal] 09:00 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+oooo CDot EugenMayer MichaelDaum MTempest] by gmc 09:00 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+oo pharvey sreher] by gmc 09:00 -!- ColasHome [n=colas@mou06-1-82-246-4-64.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:00 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:00 -!- Irssi: #foswiki-summit: Total of 9 nicks [7 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 2 normal] 09:01 -!- OliverKrueger [n=nnnnnnok@static.236.211.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:01 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:01 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+oooo ColasHome Lavr_ OliverKrueger carlo1] by gmc 09:01 -!- Irssi: #foswiki-summit: Total of 11 nicks [11 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 0 normal] 09:02 <@CDot> a show of hands of the people already association members shows a quorum present 09:02 <@CDot> we will now propose and support other people looking to be members 09:02 -!- shb [n=shb@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:03 -!- shb is now known as ShawnBeasley 09:03 -!- IngoK [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:03 -!- Irssi: #foswiki-summit: Total of 13 nicks [11 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 2 normal] 09:03 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+oo IngoK ShawnBeasley] by gmc 09:05 <@CDot> we need supplementary information on prospective members 09:05 <@CDot> email addess at least 09:06 <@CDot> only active members can vote, others can vouch for them 09:07 <@pharvey> CDot: does this require my E-mail address to be public on my Foswiki.org user profile? 09:07 <@CDot> pharvey: no 09:09 <@CDot> unknown people so far (can't be vouched for in the room): 09:09 <@CDot> Marty Brandon, Justin Meadows, Don Wennick 09:09 <@CDot> can anyone online vouch for them? 09:10 <@CDot> Nathan Dye 09:10 <@pharvey> I'm afraid I can't match any of those names to an IRC nick 09:11 <@CDot> "no" at this point means "not yet, cos we can't vouch for them" 09:11 <@CDot> Stefan Palm 09:12 -!- [LOGGER_FOSWIKI] [n=logger@colas.nahaboo.net] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:12 < [LOGGER_FOSWIKI]> | Starting logging this channel #foswiki-summit - See logs at http://colas.nahaboo.net/foswiki - Lines beginning with "[off]" will not be logged - You can stop logging by typing [LOGGER_FOSWIKI]: off 09:14 <@CDot> so, 5 people "on probation" 09:15 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:17 <@CDot> suggested using Linked In as a "verification link" for potential members 09:17 <@CDot> not well received :-( 09:17 * MTempest is looking to see which of the 5 are active on foswiki.org 09:18 -!- unixhag [n=Aunty@115.70.48.12] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:18 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o wwwolf] by OliverKrueger 09:18 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o unixhag] by OliverKrueger 09:19 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+v [LOGGER_FOSWIKI]] by OliverKrueger 09:19 <@CDot> unixhag: don't you want to be an association member, Sue? 09:19 <@unixhag> ummm, errr,.... ::blush:: I've become a bit out of touch with what that's about 09:20 <@CDot> no worries 09:20 * CDot will find a link 09:20 <@unixhag> Is that what this channel's for? 09:21 <@OliverKrueger> current members of the "proto-association": AndreU, SvenReher, IngoKappler,OliverLaudenbach,MarkusUeberall,JensHansen,OliverKrueger 09:21 <@gmc> http://foswiki.org/Community/Association 09:21 <@CDot> unixhag: aye 09:21 <@ColasHome> for the record, I requested membership on my foswiki page. 09:21 <@gmc> ColasHome: we're currently discussing your proposal :) 09:22 <@ColasHome> ah (audio is a bit... mubled) 09:22 <@OliverKrueger> ColasHome, yes, you are on the list. 09:22 <@gmc> current discussion is about how to get new members approved 09:22 <@MTempest> http://foswiki.org/Community/AgendaInitialCommunityAssembly lists those who requested membership - Is that the list being used in Hannover? 09:22 <@gmc> main contention: only by being proposed and supported by 2 additional active members 09:22 <@OliverKrueger> Yes, we walked through that list. 09:22 <@gmc> or should it be done by apporval by the entire general assembly 09:23 <@gmc> MTempest: correct, we have looked at the list and scratched 5 people no-one knows 09:23 <@CDot> (yet) 09:24 <@unixhag> Sounds like the association, while important, is good to be populated by significantly committed community members, rather than drifters like me. I never know when I'll disappear for a month or three, and one day forever. So I'm thinking the best thing I can do is be ready to support, but no need to actually become a member. 09:25 <@CDot> unixhag: that's up to you. The association is about protection, there is no commitment to actually do anything 09:26 <@CDot> it's like saying "I believe in the freedom of Foswiki, and by being a member I publicly assert that" 09:26 <@CDot> and not much more 09:27 -!- pharvey_ [n=chatzill@124-168-205-11.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:27 <@CDot> concerns raised about potential for companies sandbagging the association 09:27 < pharvey_> yikes. Something happened to my internets. 09:27 <@CDot> made the point that if it's big enough, then that can always be controlled; but we need members 09:27 <@CDot> so unixhag, the more the merrier ;-) 09:28 <@unixhag> OK. Do I have to pay to play? 09:28 <@CDot> not yet; the initial founding said no 09:28 <@CDot> not sure if we will change that (I strongly doubt it) 09:28 <@unixhag> In that case.... ta-da! Can I join, please? 09:29 -!- Irssi: #foswiki-summit: Total of 17 nicks [15 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 1 normal] 09:29 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o pharvey_] by gmc 09:29 <@MichaelDaum> unixhag added you to the list of members as cdot proposed 09:30 <@unixhag> thanks 09:30 <@ColasHome> paying for one symbolic euro may give you a cheap way to insure identity, though. 09:30 <@unixhag> One euro I can afford 09:30 <@CDot> MTempest: any news on activity of the doubted five? 09:31 <@OliverKrueger> ColasHome: 1EUR wouldnt worth the effort to collect the money. So either we will have no fee or a "slightly higher" one. 09:33 <@MTempest> CDot: sorry - got distracted... Checking.... 09:33 <@gmc> currently discussing how being an association member is not required for participation of foswiki 09:33 <@CDot> Andre says the next summit will be in SA 09:33 <@gmc> the association is a legal vehicle to protect the projects interests 09:33 <@pharvey_> South Australia ;-) 09:33 <@unixhag> Oooh, South Australia, great! 09:33 <@gmc> can i apply for a travel grant ??? 09:33 <@EugenMayer> no. 09:34 <@CDot> South America; Bolivia, maybe 09:34 <@EugenMayer> ;-) 09:34 <@pharvey_> Yeah. South Australia is a bit smokey at the moment. 09:34 <@gmc> i know a nice place on the south pole 09:34 <@pharvey_> south africa perhaps? 09:35 * MTempest likes south africa :) 09:35 <@EugenMayer> Well for the audio Mumble thing 09:36 <@CDot> ok, 1 proposer, 2 supporters, if not known this time and we can't substantiate their contribution, then "no" this time 09:36 <@EugenMayer> (it seems not to work because we keep disconnecting) 09:36 <@MTempest> JustinMeadows voted on Community/ReleaseNumberingDecisionVote, but does not appear to have done anything else. 09:36 <@pharvey_> EugenMayer: I have audio at the moment 09:36 <@MTempest> I have audio, too 09:37 <@EugenMayer> pharvey_: well, even better :) Great. 09:37 <@CDot> Andre is recapping 09:37 <@CDot> the forgotten 5 are not getting in this time 09:37 <@CDot> everyone else are "go with burn" 09:38 <@CDot> future applications will require a named proposer and named seconders 09:38 <@CDot> (2 seconders) 09:40 <@CDot> we need a "why you should become an association member" 09:43 <@MTempest> NathanDye and DonWennick come up with about 10 topics each. 09:43 <@MTempest> Nathan in 4 webnotify's and 6 others - a superficial (benevelent) look - seems to be wikigardening 09:43 <@MTempest> Don has contributed to 4 support questions and 5 tasks. 09:43 <@MTempest> No sign of activity from Stephan Palm or Marty Brandon 09:44 -!- pharvey [n=chatzill@124-168-216-61.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:44 <@CDot> MTempest: DOn's contributions were fixes? Or comments? 09:44 <@MTempest> Comments 09:44 <@CDot> cool; then I suggest we keep them on the back burner for subsequent checks 09:44 <@CDot> many thanks for checking 09:44 <@MTempest> He ported SignaturePlugin, too, but did not configure it. - see http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item1709 09:44 <@MTempest> agreed 09:47 <@OliverKrueger> We now have lots of members! :) 09:48 <@gmc> hooray 09:48 <@pharvey_> Cool. 09:48 <@OliverKrueger> So, we are now 42 members. 09:49 <@pharvey_> Nice :) 09:51 <@MichaelDaum> accepted and deffered memberships online at http://foswiki.org/Community/AgendaInitialCommunityAssembly 09:53 -!- SvenDowideit [n=SvenDowi@twiki/developer/SvenDowideit] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:53 <@IngoK> All accepted members should change their status on the homepage 09:54 <@MichaelDaum> added Shawn ... he is here...please recheck again 09:55 <@ShawnBeasley> Bad Request: GET denied for save... when saving any profile data. 09:55 <@ColasHome> same for me 09:55 <@ShawnBeasley> ColasHome: the data is saved, however. 09:56 <@gmc> moving on to discuss the membership fee 09:56 <@EugenMayer> Do audio still works? 09:56 <@ColasHome> yes 09:56 <@pharvey_> I still have audio. 09:56 <@EugenMayer> Great. 09:57 <@MichaelDaum> everybody fine out there 09:57 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:57 <@ShawnBeasley> how is the audio? 09:58 <@gmc> audio still comprehensible? 09:58 < SvenDowideit> ooo, /me registers a vote against membership fee :) unless someone can spruick me a life time membership :) 09:58 * SvenDowideit is gone again 09:58 <@pharvey_> How much is membership. 09:58 -!- andreli [i=4d15ebd8@gateway/web/freenode/x-tgukanzbpkppzspm] has joined #foswiki-summit 09:58 <@unixhag> what's this audio people are talking about? 09:58 <@CDot> unixhag: mumble 09:58 <@pharvey_> The mumble (audio) server is at fun.impressive-media.de PORT: 64738 Password: foswiki 09:58 * unixhag mumbles: what's this audi... Oh :-) 09:58 <@EugenMayer> pharvey_: [off] please 09:59 <@ColasHome> difficult to understand,words get truncated for some people 09:59 <@ColasHome> [off] ok, I'll edit the logs :-) 10:00 <@pharvey_> Are we to vote for the idea of membership fee, if so, I vote yes. 10:00 <@pharvey_> As long as the amount for individuals is reasonable 10:00 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["Leaving..."] 10:01 <@OliverKrueger> Kenneth clapped hands. 10:01 <@OliverKrueger> ;) 10:01 <@EugenMayer> OliverKrueger: thats not twitter in here!! Keep useless information out! 10:01 <@EugenMayer> :) 10:01 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:02 <@ColasHome> [off] or keep it [off] 10:03 * pharvey_ didn't know about [off], and assumed that the mumble server details were public knowledge, being on a public googlewave :) 10:03 <@unixhag> What app is required to listen? 10:03 <@ShawnBeasley> mumble 10:03 <@ColasHome> mumble. you should have a package in you unix distrtib 10:03 <@unixhag> only? 10:04 <@ShawnBeasley> unfortunately, it is however avail for all platforms 10:04 <@ShawnBeasley> http://mumble.sourceforge.net/ 10:04 <@unixhag> I've been using/accessing icecast servers lately, just use web browser or vlc. I'm spoiled 10:05 <@ShawnBeasley> so unixhag has her first job with foswiki ;) 10:05 <@CDot> discussion about the status of the existing "board members", and whether they need to sstep down 10:05 <@CDot> if we vote them out, we need a special forum 10:05 <@unixhag> ShawnBeasley: huh? 10:06 <@CDot> can Oliver step back by phone? yes 10:07 <@MTempest> ColasHome: Someone reported the mumble details on #foswiki, too. 10:07 <@ShawnBeasley> unixhag: an icecast server for association use :) 10:07 <@CDot> are there any additional nmoinations for board members? 10:07 <@EugenMayer> current are listed here : http://foswiki.org/Community/AgendaInitialCommunityAssembly 10:07 <@ColasHome> [off] I dont think icecast can do "live" audio? 10:07 <@unixhag> You're on! Gimme a root login and I'll set it up :-) 10:07 <@CDot> we need 3 for 2 years, 2 for one year 10:08 <@CDot> Andre has refused the nomination 10:08 <@unixhag> I've been playing live music using 'butt' client, pointed at icecast server, and others listen. Guessing it could be a microphone just as well as a guitar 10:09 <@CDot> SvenDowideit: are you there? 10:09 <@gmc> SvenDowideit: do you accept your nomination to be on the board? 10:09 <@CDot> need to know if you accept the nonmination to the board 10:10 <@CDot> martin seibert has proposed Koen 10:10 <@CDot> crawford proposed carlo; rejected, due to company rules 10:11 -!- procopio [n=chatzill@89.214.14.3] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:11 <@MTempest> [off] I'm back 10:11 <@CDot> kenneth proposed martin seibert; also rejected 10:11 < procopio> Good morning 10:11 <@pharvey_> Good morning procopio 10:11 <@OliverKrueger> Hi procopio 10:11 <@ShawnBeasley> Hi procopio 10:11 <@CDot> andre proposes Ingo; Ingo accepts 10:12 <@CDot> any other proposals on the table? 10:12 <@wwwolf> To be clear: IngoK is accepting 10:12 <@pharvey_> What happened to SvenDowideit's nomination 10:12 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:12 <@CDot> waiting for him to confirm that he accepts 10:13 <@CDot> koen accepted the nomination 10:13 * pharvey_ [off] is afk for a minute 10:13 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:13 < MartinSeibert> Hi all! 10:15 <@pharvey_> Hi MartinSeibert 10:16 -!- pharvey_ is now known as pharvey 10:16 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:18 <@gmc> [off] ok who is downloading porn ?? the internet is getting a bit slow here 10:18 <@pharvey> [off] too many people have google wave open? :) 10:19 <@unixhag> [off] a network version of emacs? 10:19 <@gmc> [off] oh wait.. i just booted the chromium os in vmware 10:20 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:20 <@gmc> sreher: reload :) 10:21 -!- frogpond [n=martin@HSI-KBW-078-043-045-042.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:21 < MartinSeibert> All 5 members of the board have stepped down. 4 are present in the meeting. OliverLaudenbach did so over the phone. 10:23 < MartinSeibert> Everybody that has been nominated would accept a 2-year or a 1-year-term. 10:24 <@CDot> the 1 year term is *only* this time; in future all terms are 2 year 10:24 <@EugenMayer> [off] Audio still up? 10:24 <@CDot> and anyone can step down/be kicked out when they want 10:24 <@pharvey> [off] EugenMayer, yes it's still up. 10:24 <@unixhag> [off] I'm getting it way down here 10:24 <@MTempest> [off] yes, but there are open mics causing echo 10:25 <@pharvey> [off] EugenMayer, echo! 10:25 <@pharvey> [off] seems better 10:25 <@MTempest> [off] echo is gone now :) 10:25 <@CDot> proposal for online votoing; remote attendees email someone they trust who is in the meeting 10:25 <@gmc> we are about to vote for board members 10:26 <@CDot> ping SvenDowideit 10:26 <@gmc> http://foswiki.org/Community/AgendaInitialCommunityAssembly#V_Election_of_the_of_the_Board_o 10:26 <@ShawnBeasley> Not just anyone, but a designated email address. 10:26 <@EugenMayer> SvenDowideit: arround? 10:26 * OliverKrueger pings SvenDowideit 10:27 -!- mzeecedric [n=mzeecedr@e181176218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:27 <@pharvey> I have his phone number I think 10:27 <@unixhag> [off] pharvey: are you an aussie too? 10:27 <@EugenMayer> [off] break, 15 minutes 10:27 -!- MartinRowe [n=MartinRo@cpc3-seac19-2-0-cust249.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:27 <@pharvey> unixhag, yep 10:28 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["Leaving..."] 10:29 <@ColasHome> [off] for info, I enjoy the audio as it conveys the mood of the meeting, but I miss a lot of words, so if you want an answer from me on a point , please do ask on IRC 10:30 <@unixhag> [off] I doubt I've understood a single thing they've said on the audio, but mood, yes, I get that :-) 10:31 <@MichaelDaum> coffee break 10:31 < procopio> I agree with ColasHome 10:31 <@MTempest> [off] procopio: please mute, unless you have something specific to say :) 10:32 < procopio> is it better? 10:32 <@MTempest> [off] procopio: no Your mic is still hot 10:32 <@CDot> having a break 10:32 <@CDot> 10 mins 10:33 <@CDot> trying to call Sven to find out if he accepts the nomination 10:33 < SvenDowideit> bimey sms worked 10:33 <@gmc> multi-channel attack 10:33 < procopio> strange i have just muted it!!! 10:33 <@unixhag> [off] procopio: you didn't change, someone else did. did you mute mzeecedric by mistake?? 10:34 < procopio> me? 10:34 <@unixhag> [off] mzeecedric again 10:34 < procopio> i dont think so! 10:34 < mzeecedric> no, i've muted myself 10:34 <@MTempest> [off] procopio : that's it :) Thanks 10:34 < mzeecedric> sound is bad here, lots off echo 10:34 < procopio> i think o got it now! 10:35 <@MTempest> mzeecedric: This is the sound of a coffee break :/ 10:35 < mzeecedric> *g*, true, it was better some minutes ago... 10:35 < mzeecedric> but still hard to follow 10:36 * MTempest nods 10:36 < andreli> Nomenees for the board of the association can be found here: http://foswiki.org/Community/AgendaInitialCommunityAssembly#Nominations_for_the_board 10:38 <@pharvey> how many positions are available? 10:38 <@MTempest> 5 10:38 < andreli> Votes from remote participants have to be sent to andre.lichtsteiner@psi.ch by 12 o'clock UTC+1 10:39 * SvenDowideit isn't on the list yet :) 10:39 < andreli> Each participant votes for 5 names 10:40 * pharvey thinks it's 11:39am in UTC+1 10:40 * SvenDowideit was wondering too 10:40 * MTempest too 10:40 < SvenDowideit> it might better to talk in terms of 'you have 20minutes from now' 10:40 <@unixhag> certainly 10:41 < SvenDowideit> so, there are 7 people listed 10:41 < SvenDowideit> and i have to select 2 that i don't vote for? 10:41 <@gmc> each voter votes for 5 _distinct_ names 10:41 <@gmc> SvenDowideit: correct 10:41 < SvenDowideit> or should i add myself to the list? 10:41 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o SvenDowideit] by gmc 10:41 <@gmc> SvenDowideit: i think you can vote for yourself, yes 10:41 <@SvenDowideit> gmc - i am not on the list @http://foswiki.org/Community/AgendaInitialCommunityAssembly#Nominations_for_the_board 10:42 <@gmc> that is, i don't see anything in the articles that says you cant 10:42 <@SvenDowideit> does that mean the vote is currently invalid? 10:42 <@gmc> SvenDowideit: that's odd 10:42 <@gmc> oh that's because you didn't accept yet.. 10:42 <@gmc> but you just did, so go ahead and add yourself 10:42 <@ColasHome> Note that you can set up audio quality on input in mumble... did you try to raise the quality for the summit input? 10:42 <@SvenDowideit> ie, can voting start before the input form is valid? 10:42 <@Lavr_> No vote was done. we were waiting for your acceptance as candidate 10:43 <@gmc> SvenDowideit: no it can't.. 10:43 <@SvenDowideit> grin 10:43 <@gmc> currently the meeting is adjourned for ordering pizza 10:43 <@SvenDowideit> ooo, that'd be nice 10:43 <@SvenDowideit> tis 8:45pm here 10:43 <@unixhag> Sven, mate, shut up and do stuff so we can move on, will ya :-) 10:43 <@SvenDowideit> doneski - while talking so ner 10:43 <@unixhag> any minute now you'll be up to your elbows in.... again 10:44 < procopio> im confused!! where are we in the agenda? 10:44 < procopio> item iV Vote for proposed articles? 10:44 <@SvenDowideit> they fell asleep just as gmc's sms arrived 10:44 <@pharvey> procopio: remote participants are to E-mail their vote for the 5 board members in about 15 mins 10:44 <@unixhag> procopio: coffee break, with slight rekindling for sven's bit 10:44 <@Lavr_> The articles were passed (no changes proposed) 10:44 <@gmc> procopio: nope we're on voting for the board members now 10:44 <@SvenDowideit> procopio, we're at the point wher eyou email my name to andreli 10:44 <@SvenDowideit> giggle 10:44 <@MTempest> [off] MTempest zips'n'mails SvenDowideit a pizza 10:44 * SvenDowideit apt-get installs zip 10:44 <@MTempest> SvenDowideit is on the list now 10:45 <@unixhag> so all of us here are voting? 10:45 <@gmc> procopio: http://foswiki.org/Community/AgendaInitialCommunityAssembly#V_Election_of_the_of_the_Board_o 10:45 <@gmc> unixhag: if you're a member, yes 10:45 <@SvenDowideit> unixhag, == sue 10:45 <@gmc> because by being here, you are counted as participaating in the general assemblye 10:45 <@SvenDowideit> ie, nr. 36 10:45 <@unixhag> a new member, yes 10:45 <@gmc> so am i :) 10:45 <@gmc> in fact, i've been a member as long as you have been :) 10:45 <@pharvey> E-mail to andre.lichtsteiner@psi.ch 10:46 <@SvenDowideit> mmm, i'm Nr. 10000 10:46 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:46 < procopio> why isnt Martin Seibert in the list? 10:46 <@SvenDowideit> he declined 10:46 < procopio> oh! 10:46 <@gmc> among others that declined are carlo and eugen 10:47 <@gmc> we don't know about lynnwood yet :( 10:47 <@SvenDowideit> anyone have his fone number? 10:47 <@unixhag> jeez we can't even copy and paste from this table :-) 10:47 <@gmc> we suspect cdot has 10:47 <@SvenDowideit> i can't find it :/ i think i did 10:48 <@gmc> i now have your number ! :) 10:48 <@gmc> best part: you don't have mine! 10:48 < procopio> to tell the truth i dont feel confortable to vote for anyone! 10:48 <@gmc> procopio: you can abstain if you want 10:48 < procopio> that is also something i dont like to do either :( 10:48 <@SvenDowideit> procopio, just vote for the first person to ask you nicely... 10:48 <@SvenDowideit> please, vote for me :) 10:49 < procopio> well Sven, you would be one on top of my list!!! 10:49 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o procopio] by gmc 10:49 <@SvenDowideit> aw shucks 10:49 -!- Irssi: #foswiki-summit: Total of 25 nicks [17 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 7 normal] 10:49 < MartinRowe> votes emailed 10:49 <@pharvey> Perhaps procopio knows these nominees better by their IRC names>? 10:49 <@Lavr_> I promise to lower the taxes and better weather if you vote for me ;-) 10:49 <@SvenDowideit> look, instant reward :) 10:49 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+oooo andreli AndreU ArthurClemens frogpond] by gmc 10:49 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+ooo MartinRowe MartinSeibert mzeecedric] by gmc 10:49 <@SvenDowideit> too slow old man :) 10:49 <@gmc> vote me for bigger servers! 10:49 <@SvenDowideit> vote me, for polite conversation? 10:50 <@procopio> biger servers is a strong argument!!! :) 10:50 <@unixhag> I'm having edit fumbles. How many seconds are left to get this email in? 10:50 <@SvenDowideit> millions and squillions 10:50 <@MTempest> Votes mailed 10:50 <@pharvey> 7 minutes 10:50 <@gmc> unixhag: at least 10 10:50 <@gmc> we're still having a pizza ordering break 10:50 <@Lavr_> We have not even started here so I am sure we extend the time by a little 10:51 <@unixhag> This is not fair! I want them all 10:51 * unixhag pouts 10:51 <@SvenDowideit> greedy guts 10:51 <@gmc> you can put forward a motion to extend the board :) 10:51 <@unixhag> Is there any reason why it was kept small? 10:51 <@gmc> agility?? 10:52 <@pharvey> probably not much need for > 5 board members 10:52 <@procopio> we can vote for more than one person? 10:52 <@unixhag> I'd like to move to extend the board just this time, initial enthusiasm and all. I mean good board members aren't easy to get, and we have 8 good and willing this year 10:52 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Success] 10:52 <@procopio> there are 5 seats open right? 10:53 <@pharvey> procopio: 5, yes 10:53 <@ColasHome> I trust the board members - whatever they are - to take the input of the community, so I think keeping the board small is better (agility) 10:54 <@unixhag> ColasHome: maybe you're right 10:54 * unixhag sighs 10:54 <@MTempest> each voter votes for 5 _distinct_ names 10:54 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:54 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:54 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Success] 10:54 <@gmc> procopio: you vote for 5 people, one for each slot to be filled 10:54 * unixhag notes that being a board member and being a good developer are not necessarily linked, nor should they be 10:54 <@SvenDowideit> correct 10:54 -!- IngoK [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:54 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:54 -!- ShawnBeasley [n=shb@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:54 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:54 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:54 -!- EugenMayer [n=EugenMay@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:55 * MTempest voted accordingly :) 10:55 <@procopio> who is talking over the mudle? 10:55 <@gmc> the 3 persons with the most votes will do a 2 year term, the 2 remaining persons from the pool with the most votes get a one year term 10:55 <@SvenDowideit> now 'e tells me :) 10:55 <@gmc> ok we're about to start again here 10:55 * pharvey has voted 10:55 <@pharvey> the internets have gone quiet 10:55 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:55 <@procopio> no sound! 10:55 <@SvenDowideit> just got confirmation - mumble currently needs leopard, and i only has tiger atm 10:55 * ColasHome has voted, but only for 3 - was confused - 10:56 <@MTempest> SvenDowideit: Mumble in a VM? 10:56 <@SvenDowideit> ColasHome, is sent home with no pizza 10:56 <@procopio> im doing my vore now! 10:56 <@gmc> we start voting now 10:56 <@unixhag> ColasHome: send a followup email, quoting and fixing 10:56 <@SvenDowideit> MTempest, mmm, eee, might try that 10:56 <@ColasHome> Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: lichtsteiner@psi.ch 10:57 <@MTempest> andreli: Please ack the voting emails 10:57 <@ColasHome> apparently the mail deamon saw that my vote was incomplete and refused it :-) 10:57 <@pharvey> [off] SvenDowideit: hope your VM can access your sound properly, or are you going to stream a .wav over a shared filesystem into your hacked ipod with an ssh tunnel... 10:57 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:57 < CDot> we're back 10:57 <@ColasHome> Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 550 550 #5.1.0 Address rejected lichtsteiner@psi.ch (state 14). 10:57 <@MTempest> ColasHome: andre.lichtsteiner@psi.ch 10:58 <@ColasHome> [off] thx 10:58 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:58 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:58 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:58 -!- ColasHome changed the topic of #foswiki-summit to: Votes: 5 people to andre.lichtsteiner@psi.ch from table at end of http://foswiki.org/Community/AgendaInitialCommunityAssembly#V_Election_of_the_of_the_Board_o 10:59 -!- IngoK [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:59 <@unixhag> [off] why's it quiet? they ran out of coffee? started eating peanut butter sandwiches? 11:00 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:00 < CDot> voting 11:00 <@mzeecedric> audio seems to be gone? 11:00 < CDot> no, we are just quiet 11:00 <@SvenDowideit> sssh, we're hunting votes? 11:00 < CDot> I just saw one! 11:01 < CDot> now counting 11:01 <@ColasHome> a secret vote, shhh 11:01 <@gmc> anyone still needs to vote remotely? 11:01 <@SvenDowideit> done 11:01 <@MTempest> gmc: Please ask Andre to ack the votes, so that we know they were received 11:01 < CDot> MTempest: will do 11:02 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:02 -!- ThomasPHaeck [n=thomas@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:02 <@MTempest> CDot: Thx 11:02 < CDot> andre hasn't logged in to his mail yet, but will ack when he does 11:03 <@MTempest> [off] CDot : What happened to Shawn's mumbling? 11:03 < CDot> Shawn is checking 11:03 <@SvenDowideit> [off] he went all quiet? 11:03 < CDot> he's muttering; is that the same? ;-) 11:03 <@SvenDowideit> yup 11:03 <@procopio> soune came up! 11:04 <@pharvey> ack! noise. 11:04 <@procopio> i can ear 11:04 <@unixhag> :-) 11:04 < CDot> just shout any time the audio hangs 11:04 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:04 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+ooo carlo1 CDot IngoK] by OliverKrueger 11:04 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:04 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o ThomasPHaeck] by OliverKrueger 11:04 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o MartinSeibert] by OliverKrueger 11:05 -!- shb [n=shb@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:05 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:05 < wwwolf> 11:06 <@procopio> Andre ... i have just sent my vote! 11:07 <@procopio> no one is using the wave ...right? 11:07 <@unixhag> what is that? 11:08 <@pharvey> procopio: I am monitoring the wave, but discussion seems to be focused here on IRC 11:08 <@procopio> such a "thing" about wave..... 11:08 <@procopio> and we are back to good old IRC :D 11:08 <@MTempest> [off] unixhag: Google Wave - a bleeding edge technology that the internet isn't fast enough for yet :) 11:08 <@pharvey> CDot tried to use the wave at the beginning, but internet was too slow 11:08 -!- Babar [n=babar@irssi/user/babar] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:08 <@pharvey> Babar: hi 11:08 < Babar> why create a dedicated channel? :( 11:09 < Babar> hi guys. not here for long but I thought I'd drop by 11:09 < Babar> people are eating I guess :) 11:09 <@procopio> who s talking about the WAVE? 11:10 <@pharvey> right. We said that wave is so 2000s. It's all about the particles now. 11:10 <@unixhag> I'm sitting here between two computers, each with multiple workspaces and apps with multiple windows, both speaking some of what goes to screen, and typing on two keyboards while avoiding two rodents. Enough apps, enough protocols already, thanks. :-) 11:10 <@SvenDowideit> unixhag, aol 11:10 <@MartinSeibert> This is were all documentation should go: http://foswiki.org/Community/FoswikiSummitDocumentation 11:11 <@SvenDowideit> plus i have a vnc session to my mac, in which i have a vm with win2003 that i'm trying to install mumble on :) 11:11 <@gmc> hey Babar 11:11 <@gmc> Babar: do you want to vote for the association board members? 11:11 <@gmc> http://foswiki.org/Community/AgendaInitialCommunityAssembly#Nominations_for_the_board 11:11 <@gmc> Babar: if so, send an email with the 5 names of your preferred members to andre.lichtsteiner@psi.ch *now* 11:12 * Babar reading and sending 11:15 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+oooo AndreU Babar Lavr_ MichaelDaum] by SvenDowideit 11:15 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+ooo shb sreher wwwolf] by SvenDowideit 11:15 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o sreher] by SvenDowideit 11:15 -!- Irssi: #foswiki-summit: Total of 25 nicks [24 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 0 normal] 11:16 <@Babar> mail sent. 11:16 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:18 -!- EugenMayer [n=EugenMay@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:18 <@gmc> Babar: ack, brilliant 11:18 <@gmc> they're still counting 11:18 <@Babar> good. perfect timing for me 11:18 <@Babar> [off] and thank god I read my mail, my appointment to the dentist has moved location :) 11:19 <@ColasHome> [off] you must have a big dentist bill with these "defenses" :-) 11:19 <@ColasHome> [off] tusks 11:20 <@procopio> Video: we can vote for having Crawford on video :D 11:22 <@pharvey> seriously though: I would love to see the open spaces presentations somehow. Record screencasts? Save the slides? Video? 11:22 <@gmc> the results are online now 11:22 <@SvenDowideit> hand coded javascript 11:22 <@procopio> where? 11:22 <@gmc> http://foswiki.org/Community/AgendaInitialCommunityAssembly#Nominations_for_the_board 11:23 <@procopio> got it 11:23 <@SvenDowideit> i wanted a faster server! 11:23 <@SvenDowideit> i shoulda voted more often 11:23 <@gmc> crawford accepts his 2 year term 11:23 <@gmc> kenneth accepts his 2 year term 11:23 <@gmc> sven: do you accept a 2 year term? 11:24 <@gmc> SvenDowideit: do you accept a 2 year term? 11:24 <@SvenDowideit> willdo 11:24 <@OliverKrueger> Sven, you are elected. 11:24 <@SvenDowideit> yes, i accept 11:24 <@gmc> sven accept shis 2 year term 11:24 <@unixhag> did all our emails arrive? 11:24 * EugenMayer clapping hands 11:24 <@gmc> (applause all around) 11:24 <@wwwolf> SvenDowideit: applause 11:24 <@SvenDowideit> [off] do i get a funny hat, or do i have to send pam out to buy one? 11:24 <@MartinSeibert> I just published this blog post: http://blog.foswiki.org/2009/11/how-to-remotely-join-the-foswiki-summit/ 11:24 <@procopio> *** clap clap *** 11:24 * shb claps for SvenDowideit 's acceptance 11:24 <@gmc> oliver accepts his 1 year term 11:24 <@gmc> michael accepts his 1 year term 11:24 * unixhag applauds loudly and wakes up the parrot who screetches approval 11:24 <@procopio> *** clap clap *** 11:24 -!- shb is now known as ShawnBeasley 11:25 <@SvenDowideit> cheers from here :) 11:25 <@gmc> the remote votes were acknowledged by email reply 11:25 <@ColasHome> [off] cheers 11:26 -!- EugenMayer [n=EugenMay@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #foswiki-summit ["Leaving."] 11:27 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #foswiki-summit [] 11:27 -!- IngoK [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #foswiki-summit [] 11:27 <@gmc> there is currently a vote whether we destroy all votes (both paper and digital) 11:27 <@gmc> instead of storing them for X years 11:27 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:27 <@SvenDowideit> vote yes for record less association :) 11:27 <@unixhag> so how do we vote for that? 11:28 <@gmc> unixhag: just say yes or no 11:28 < CDot> unixhag: JUST SAY YES (YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE) 11:28 < CDot> oops 11:28 <@unixhag> I thought the vote we did for the board was pre-decided to be silent 11:28 <@unixhag> I don't think votes should be kept for years, if at all 11:28 <@gmc> yes, but it is now about destroyuing 'the evidence' 11:29 <@MartinRowe> yes: record less is fine by me 11:29 < CDot> unanimous vote for getting destroyed in the room 11:29 <@pharvey> yes 11:29 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o CDot] by gmc 11:29 <@MTempest> yes 11:29 <@unixhag> yes 11:29 <@procopio> thats a boring thing to do!!! 11:29 <@pharvey> meetings are always boring 11:30 <@procopio> no i mean doing the audit of finace ... 11:30 <@procopio> finance 11:31 <@procopio> i like Martin's startegy 11:31 <@procopio> i came up front, suggests some work , for others to do 11:31 <@procopio> :D 11:32 -!- ThomasPHaeck [n=thomas@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:33 <@gmc> we're now voting for the two auditors 11:33 <@MTempest> Who are the candidates? 11:33 <@CDot> koen and ingo kappler have volunteered; any other online? 11:34 <@CDot> no votes against these two for auditors 11:34 <@CDot> one year term 11:34 * SvenDowideit votes to eagerly accept them :) 11:34 <@MartinRowe> seconded 11:34 <@CDot> any votes against them online, or do we take it as a done deal? 11:34 <@pharvey> thirded 11:34 <@MTempest> seconded 11:34 <@unixhag> take it take it 11:35 <@gmc> we are slowly moving over to voting on http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws 11:35 <@procopio> take it 11:35 <@CDot> Andre asks: anyone for free pizza? 11:35 <@pharvey> do they deliver to canberra? 11:36 <@gmc> ok, cdot is not going to be the treasurer 11:36 <@unixhag> or gosford? 11:36 <@CDot> pharvey: no, you have to collect from Hannover 11:36 <@SvenDowideit> brisbane? 11:36 * MTempest doesn't have POIP 11:36 <@gmc> we will vote for each of the bylaw articles proposed on http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws 11:37 <@gmc> currently discussing " Community members acting on behalf of the community " 11:37 <@CDot> talking about the para "When a member communicates to...." 11:39 <@gmc> it is unclear what 'on behalf of the community' means in this article 11:39 <@SvenDowideit> ie, /me must use svendowideit@home.org.au - MartinSeibert has to use his home address, and CDot has to dind a non CDot email address? 11:39 <@pharvey> Yes. I wonder if this means all foswiki-discuss messages 11:39 <@unixhag> The From and reply-to are important, IMHO. For example, think of people in the past who might have received an email from benevolentdictator@dictator.net 11:40 <@CDot> anything communicated to the public 11:40 <@unixhag> it does say "to the general public" and says "on behalf of" 11:40 <@unixhag> in those rare occasions, could foswiki addresses be used? 11:41 <@SvenDowideit> as in association@foswiki.org 11:41 <@pharvey> This could be sticky for me. My employer requires me to identify as an employee in public forums, where I am using the public forum in relation to my work. 11:41 <@MTempest> Is there a public archive for foswiki-discuss? 11:41 <@unixhag> yes, like that, or like sven@foswiki.org 11:41 <@unixhag> pharvey: this is NOT about public forums, my reading says that anyway 11:42 <@SvenDowideit> pharvey, i dont' read it as normal discussion 11:42 <@SvenDowideit> its when there's correspondance on behalf of the association / community 11:42 <@unixhag> pharvey: I understand this to be when it is _from_ an official represtentative, and _to_ a 'memeber of the general public' 11:42 <@pharvey> right, sorry. that makes sense. 11:42 <@CDot> unixhag: right 11:42 * pharvey needs a coffee. 11:43 <@MTempest> "such as responding to emails sent to mailing lists intended for use by the general public," could include replying to messages on foswiki-discuss 11:43 <@unixhag> forums, etc, of course there'll be lots of flashing of advertising in email addresses as usual 11:43 <@pharvey> MTempest: That's what I was getting confused on. 11:43 <@CDot> it could, yes; Kenneth is trying to enumerate the things that might be "covered" 11:44 <@unixhag> since when is foswiki-discuss intended for use by the general public? they're already using or heavily interested in foswiki, aren't they? 11:44 <@pharvey> in my employer's legalese, "public forum" is the nature of the communication, rather than a bulletin board style forum. 11:44 <@CDot> we are talking about mails that are sent to the public, and signed "The Foswiki Community" 11:44 <@CDot> pharvey: good phrase 11:44 <@unixhag> CDot: yes 11:45 <@pharvey> Ok. Sounds reasonable. 11:45 <@gmc> unixhag: the archive is public, so in that sense that list is a public list, indexed by google etc 11:45 <@unixhag> gmc: but do you really think that's the paragraph's intention? 11:45 <@gmc> the intention of this article seems to cover only 'statements' done on behalf of the community, so not any mail on -discuss, but if it is a response to some concertn undersigned 'The Foswiki community' that is covered 11:45 <@gmc> unixhag: it seems what i gather from the discussion going on here (can you still hear the audio?) 11:46 <@pharvey> I think the keywords are: "community members acting on behalf of the community" 11:46 <@unixhag> gmc: I have understood three words of the audio all evening 11:46 <@unixhag> and they were in the coffee break 11:46 <@Babar> btw, who is Andre Lichtsteiner? :) 11:46 <@pharvey> One speaker (I think it's MartinSeibert) is quite clear 11:46 <@MTempest> The american is also pretty clear 11:47 <@gmc> (pizza has arrived) 11:47 <@CDot> they are sitting next to the mic 11:47 <@Babar> the american? There is an american? 11:47 <@pharvey> OTRS guy 11:47 <@gmc> the american is providing the mumble laptop :) 11:47 <@CDot> Shawn is a refugee from the US; lives in Germany 11:47 * Babar has finished reading all his LHC backlog 11:47 <@Babar> great timing guys... summit, LHC first circulating beam, and dentist... 11:48 <@gmc> Babar: have fun ..... 11:48 * pharvey googles LHC news 11:48 <@gmc> question: is the article as it is now clear enough? 11:49 <@Babar> it was on TV here in Poland last night or this morning 11:49 <@pharvey> I don't watch TV :/ 11:49 <@CDot> the foswiki byelaws were on TV? wow! 11:49 * ColasHome goes to lunch 11:49 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:49 <@Babar> pizza? Hey, it was way much better when Lavr organised it last year :)) 11:50 <@Babar> CDot: yeah, in between 2 pr0n shows at 3 in the morning 11:50 <@unixhag> Would it, as it stands now, stop everyone from doing what peter did? 11:50 <@CDot> no, I don't think so 11:51 <@unixhag> I mean stop the email part of it 11:51 <@gmc> 11:51 -!- andreli [i=4d15ebd8@gateway/web/freenode/x-tgukanzbpkppzspm] has quit ["Page closed"] 11:51 * unixhag imagines what pizza is going to do to diction 11:51 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:52 * MTempest wonders if it would help if public messages were signed by someone else e.g. a board member (or a diffferent board member, if the sender is a board member) 11:53 * pharvey breaks for cofee 11:53 <@Babar> [off] logging off 11:53 <@unixhag> for things like press releases maybe, but for general communication it would delay urgently required responses and make us look slack 12:01 * unixhag closes eyes but tries to stay awake 12:06 * SvenDowideit wonders how many unit tests board members are expected to write :) 12:07 <@pharvey> all of them 12:07 <@pharvey> :D 12:07 <@SvenDowideit> ah, well, thats easy 12:07 <@SvenDowideit> all == the set of all existing tests 12:07 <@pharvey> I need to write tests for dbcacheplugin 12:08 * MTempest wonders is SvenDowideit would pass the tests 12:08 <@MTempest> ^is^if 12:08 <@MTempest> :) 12:08 * SvenDowideit knows how to fail most tests 12:08 <@MTempest> giggle 12:08 <@SvenDowideit> but...... whats my motivation? 12:09 -!- MartinSeibert_ [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:09 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:09 -!- MartinSeibert_ is now known as MartinSeibert 12:12 * pharvey has been reading about malicious wave robots. Access controls in wave are .... well, an alien concept, it seems 12:15 -!- ShawnBeasley [n=shb@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 12:16 -!- MartinSeibert_ [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:16 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:16 -!- MartinSeibert_ is now known as MartinSeibert 12:16 <@MTempest> We've lost audio 12:17 <@unixhag> coz we've lost shawn 12:17 <@unixhag> someone needs to tickle shawn's mouse or something?> 12:22 <@unixhag> BTW, mumble is probably best for voice, rather than icecast which seems designed for music. And in linux the client plays nicely with Orca :-) 12:23 <@CDot> back 12:23 <@unixhag> CDot: Did shawn's laptop get buried under a pizza or something? No shawn, and no sound 12:23 <@gmc> people are slowly filing back into the room 12:24 <@unixhag> what, were they afraid we'd steal their pizza if they ate in front of us? 12:24 <@CDot> his laptop is still there; the lights are on, but no-one is home 12:25 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:25 <@gmc> its more that we didn't want to get our laptops dirty 12:25 <@gmc> at least, that was my motivation 12:27 <@unixhag> well at least we didn't have to listen to your mastication :-) 12:27 <@gmc> i masticate really quietly 12:29 * OliverKrueger is back from lunch. 12:30 <@gmc> wb OliverKrueger 12:33 < MartinSeibert> Who wants to try Etherpad with me: http://etherpad.com/6UtpqiEWlH 12:35 <@gmc> 12:36 <@MTempest> Perhaps shawn's laptop is sulking because it didn't get pizza 12:37 -!- shb [n=shb@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:37 <@unixhag> sound 12:38 -!- shb is now known as ShawnBeasley 12:38 <@gmc> now voting on http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Community_members_acting_on_beha 12:38 <@gmc> who want this kept as a by-law? 12:38 <@CDot> who wants the byelaw "When a member...." (the general feeling in the room is that the wording is too unspecific) 12:39 <@SvenDowideit> i like the intent of the bylaw 12:39 <@pharvey> I like the intent as well. 12:39 <@unixhag> me too 12:39 <@CDot> the intent is absolutely accepted 12:39 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:39 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:39 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:39 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:39 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:39 <@gmc> proposal is that the board will work on a better wording 12:39 <@CDot> it#s the spefici wording... 12:39 <@gmc> we're moving on to http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Community_members_acting_on_beha 12:40 <@SvenDowideit> [off] all representations of communications coming from boskone are to be said to be coming from 'the speaker for boskone' 12:40 <@gmc> nwo voting on http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Community_members_acting_on_beha 12:40 <@SvenDowideit> agreed 12:41 <@procopio> agree 12:41 <@pharvey> "agree", agree with what? The bylaw, then yes, I agree. 12:41 <@unixhag> and me, I like it 12:41 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:42 <@gmc> cdot: ping 12:42 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:42 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:42 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:42 <@gmc> http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Community_members_acting_on_beha is not accepted 12:42 <@gmc> now moving on to http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Community_members_acting_on_beha 12:42 <@unixhag> were we counted? 12:42 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:42 < ShawnBeasley> wrong link 12:42 <@unixhag> or were we lost in the netsplit? 12:42 <@pharvey> http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Statements_on_behalf_of_employer 12:43 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:43 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:43 < ShawnBeasley> http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Advertising_and_sponsorship_poli 12:43 < ShawnBeasley> this is the current vote 12:43 <@MTempest> What happened to http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Statements_on_behalf_of_employer ? 12:43 < ShawnBeasley> was voted upon 12:44 < ShawnBeasley> it was disapproved 12:44 <@SvenDowideit> why? 12:44 <@gmc> MTempest: it was rejected 12:44 <@unixhag> because of a netsplit that cut off our votes? 12:44 < CDot> because it isn't a byelaw; it's a staatement of motherhood 12:44 <@SvenDowideit> on what grounds? 12:44 <@gmc> unixhag: nope your votes wouldn't have chnaged the result 12:44 <@SvenDowideit> ok, that is a reasonable reason :) 12:44 <@gmc> SvenDowideit: on the gorunds of a vote :) 12:45 < CDot> to be effective, it needs to be enforceable 12:45 < CDot> and as worded, it isn't 12:45 <@SvenDowideit> without hearing that reason, i had to vote in ignorance 12:45 <@gmc> for me personally, it tries to enforce something on _every_ single person in teh world 12:45 < CDot> sure, understood 12:45 <@gmc> ignorance is bliss 12:45 < CDot> we need to follow this up 12:46 < CDot> martin is proposing "management by exception" rather than try to formulate detailed byelaws 12:46 < CDot> so the board acts if it sees someone doing something wrong 12:46 <@SvenDowideit> aha, coolieo 12:46 <@MTempest> How is this different from what is already there? 12:46 <@MartinRowe> Sounds a bit like the 14 day rule 12:47 < CDot> it is just like the 14 day rule 12:47 -!- ShawnBeasley [n=shb@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:47 <@SvenDowideit> if someone impersonates lavr, we kickemfast 12:48 <@unixhag> SHAWN! no sound 12:48 * unixhag puts two fingers in her mouth and whistles 12:48 < CDot> shawn has heard you 12:48 <@unixhag> back 12:48 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:48 <@unixhag> :-) 12:48 <@pharvey> excellent :) 12:49 <@pharvey> Lots of plugins are attributed to sponsors. 12:50 < CDot> yes; and why not? 12:50 <@pharvey> And the wiki consultant who did the work. 12:50 <@SvenDowideit> thats later in the bits 12:50 <@SvenDowideit> read on pharvey :) 12:50 < CDot> the distinction to draw is between those who claim their own work, versus those who claim the work of others 12:51 <@gmc> or 'scent-mark' the foswiki site with their brand 12:51 < CDot> claiming your own work is IMHO fine 12:51 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77.21.235.216] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:51 <@unixhag> We just do our stuff, get on with it, and when anyone goes over the top we cut their eyes out. Simple. :-) 12:51 <@gmc> unixhag: i vote yes on that :) 12:52 <@unixhag> :-) 12:52 <@pharvey> me too ;) 12:52 <@MartinRowe> and me 12:53 <@unixhag> Obviously, that's why we're getting into Mumble, in anticipation of eyeless members 12:53 <@pharvey> Right, http://foswiki.org/Development/GuidelinesForRecognisingSponsorsOnExtensionTopics sounds reasonable. 12:54 <@procopio> if it werent for the xample of tWIKI, i would certainly prefer the approach of "social behavior"...instead of laws! 12:54 <@unixhag> Laws take hours of time haggling over them. Knives are quick. 12:54 <@gmc> we have had the gist of this proposed bylaw as a community huideline for a while already 12:54 <@gmc> was accepted at the first and only irc meeting we had 12:55 <@OliverKrueger> when was that irc meeting? 12:55 <@gmc> way back, lemme look it up 12:55 <@gmc> http://foswiki.org/Community/CommunityMeeting2008x11x03 12:55 -!- shb [n=shb@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:56 <@unixhag> We don't want anyone to overstep the mark and upset people because of not knowing what's expected. And we want to be empowered to vapourise anyone who tries to undermine us. If that can be done without endlessly debating laws, I'm all for it. 12:56 <@MTempest> GuidelinesForRecognisingSponsorsOnExtensionTopics does not address sponsored additions to the core 12:56 <@MTempest> (obviously) 12:57 <@MTempest> But I think there is a need to address that. 12:57 -!- shb is now known as ShawnBeasley 12:57 -!- IsaacLin [n=Isaac@bas9-ottawa23-1242450360.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:57 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:58 < IsaacLin> is #foswiki-association not being used? 12:58 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:58 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:58 < MartinSeibert> Are there people in this chat, who do not have access to this Google Wave: http://tr.im/FqIM 12:58 <@MTempest> Me 12:58 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:58 <@SvenDowideit> damn, i have to go turn into a pumpkin 12:58 < MartinSeibert> Should we rather use Etherpad for live documentation? - http://etherpad.com/6UtpqiEWlH 12:58 <@SvenDowideit> much thanks to all the considered voices, and talk to you laters :) 12:59 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:59 <@gmc> SvenDowideit: thanks for taking on the job to be on the board! 12:59 <@pharvey> MTempest: I invited everybody to wave! I *think* I invited you... 12:59 <@pharvey> Etherpad is actually pretty pain free 12:59 -!- plennon [n=chatzill@79.97.113.116] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:59 <@MartinRowe> +1 EtherPad 13:00 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:00 <@procopio> got to go for a few hours! 13:00 <@procopio> sorry ... 13:01 < CDot> procopio: ciao 13:01 <@procopio> this is an interesting issue!!! 13:01 < IsaacLin> How many remote participations methods are going to be used? 13:01 <@gmc> procopio: np :) arriverderci 13:01 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:01 -!- procopio [n=chatzill@89.214.14.3] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 13:01 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:01 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:01 < plennon> Hi everyone... Did we end up using google wave in the end? 13:01 < CDot> have we reflected your opinions, IRC folks? 13:02 < CDot> vote being called 13:02 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:02 < ShawnBeasley> 3..... 13:02 < ShawnBeasley> 2.... 13:02 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77.21.235.216] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:02 < ShawnBeasley> 1..... 13:02 < IsaacLin> for? 13:02 <@pharvey> CDot: what is the vote for (loud things happening at my house) 13:03 < ShawnBeasley> http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Advertising_and_sponsorship_poli 13:03 < CDot> who votes in favour of including the "Goods and Services" byelaw? 13:03 <@gmc> who is for http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Community_members_acting_on_beha 13:03 <@gmc> (just that section) 13:03 < CDot> the alternative being a more general "if there's a fight in the community, the board will settle it" 13:04 <@MTempest> CDot: gmc: two questions at once ?! 13:04 -!- Lynnwood [n=lynnwood@twiki/developer/lynnwood] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:04 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:04 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:04 <@gmc> shit i posted the wrong link 13:04 < Lynnwood> greetings all 13:04 <@MTempest> :) 13:04 * pharvey thought we already covered the members acting on behalf of the association thing 13:04 -!- andreli [i=4d15ebd8@gateway/web/freenode/x-iwskwhonfvdwkpnu] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:04 <@gmc> the vote was on http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Advertising_for_goods_and_servic 13:04 < Lynnwood> wow, already 2 pm there 13:04 <@pharvey> I vote the board settling it. 13:04 < CDot> pharvey: we did; tghis is goods and services 13:04 <@gmc> we're now discussing http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Official_project_sponsors 13:05 <@gmc> Lynnwood! 13:05 -!- ShawnBeasley [n=shb@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:05 < plennon> Sounds good to me.. 13:05 <@MartinRowe> agreed 13:06 <@pharvey> did we lose audio? 13:06 <@MTempest> pharvey: yes 13:06 <@MartinRowe> yes 13:06 < Lynnwood> can we still vote for the board members? 13:06 < CDot> whenyou agree, can you please indicate what you are agreeing to 13:06 <@gmc> (audio guy pinged) 13:06 * ColasHome is back 13:06 < CDot> Lynnwood: sorry, too late 13:06 <@gmc> Lynnwood: board member vote is over :( 13:06 < Lynnwood> no worries 13:06 <@pharvey> I agree with the *alternative*. That is, board members resolve disputes. 13:06 <@MartinRowe> audio back 13:06 <@gmc> now voting on http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Official_project_sponsors 13:06 < plennon> sorry: agree to the http://foswiki.org/Community/ByLaws#Advertising_for_goods_and_servic 13:06 < Lynnwood> i implicitly trust group's judgement here 13:06 <@gmc> general sentiment is to apply the previous result 13:07 <@MTempest> i.e. - let the board deal with it, rather than encoding it as a bylaw? 13:07 <@gmc> MTempest: indeed 13:07 < CDot> right 13:07 * MTempest supports that 13:07 <@MartinRowe> seconded 13:07 <@gmc> moving on to http://foswiki.org/Community/PrivacyPolicy already 13:07 < Lynnwood> sorry to be in late but what's option for audio? i don't see anything on the topic 13:08 <@gmc> proposal is to defer it 13:08 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:08 <@MTempest> [off] Lynnwood: Mumble details are on http://etherpad.com/6UtpqiEWlH 13:08 < Lynnwood> MTempest: thanks! 13:09 * pharvey really likes etherpad over wave already, just for its practicality 13:10 <@ColasHome> [off] also etherpad + irc are a good combo 13:11 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:11 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:11 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:11 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:12 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:12 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:13 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:13 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:14 <@gmc> discussion seems to end in 'do we need the privacy policy in the bylaw or not'.. 13:14 -!- shb [n=shb@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:14 -!- shb is now known as ShawnBeasley 13:14 <@gmc> voting now on including the privacy policy in the bylaw or not 13:15 < MartinSeibert> I have written down some ideas for you, on what to say in your video testimonial: http://foswiki.org/Community/FoswikiSummit2009OpenSpace#Video_testimonials_of_Foswiki_me 13:15 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:15 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:16 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:16 <@gmc> cdot remarks that the bylaw should be 'members of the association abide by the prrivacy policy' 13:17 <@pharvey> yes, that sounds reasonable. 13:17 < MartinSeibert> Is anybody ready to give me a video testimonial later? 13:17 < MartinSeibert> Please put your name in the etherpad list: http://etherpad.com/6UtpqiEWlH 13:18 <@MTempest> Lost audio! 13:18 <@pharvey> it's awfully quiet again ;-) 13:18 <@ColasHome> ShawnBeasley: audio aout 13:18 <@MartinRowe> audio back - thanks 13:18 <@gmc> voting now to put the privacy policy in the bylaws 13:18 <@gmc> please vot now 13:19 <@MartinRowe> agree with pharvey 13:19 < CDot> (the vote is not on the privacy policy; it's whether it is enshrined in the byelaws or not) 13:19 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:19 <@pharvey> Yes, the bylaws should oblige members to comply with the privacy policy. 13:20 <@MartinRowe> Yes 13:20 <@gmc> MartinRowe: yes on what exactly? 13:20 < Lavr_> We have been voting - We voted if the Bylaws should be a bylaw? 13:20 <@MartinRowe> agree with pharvey 13:20 < Lavr_> Note we did not vote for or against the bylaws 13:20 < Lavr_> Voting No means the board will take care of the bylaws 13:21 < CDot> we are going through the byelaws trying to decide if they should be byelwas or not, or if they should be pushed to "community peer pressure + board" control 13:21 < Lavr_> We will have a privacy policy no matter of it is a bylaw or not 13:21 <@gmc> we're now on http://foswiki.org/Community/AgendaInitialCommunityAssembly#VIII_Vote_on_forwarded_motions_i 13:22 < CDot> (I'm concerned that we don't have a clear statement of the duties of the board anywhere, and we're piling a lot on them) 13:22 <@gmc> specifically http://foswiki.org/Community/UseOfDomainsMotion 13:22 <@pharvey> Well, that was confusing. 13:23 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:23 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:23 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:24 <@pharvey> .com doesn't need to be controlled by the association. 13:24 <@pharvey> used by it I should say. 13:24 <@pharvey> redirect to .org :) 13:25 <@MTempest> pharvey: would it hurt the association or benefit it if someone else controlled foswiki.org? 13:25 <@MTempest> ^.org^.com 13:26 <@pharvey> foswiki.com should be owned by the association. I mean that the association should feel it has to "use" it, beyond a redirect to .org. I don't agree the association should entertain the idea of providing a gateway to wikiring. 13:26 <@MTempest> [off]plennon - please mute-self, unless you have something specific to say - your open mic is causing echo 13:27 < plennon> Apologies.... 13:27 <@pharvey> [off] thankyou plennon :) 13:27 <@MTempest> plennon: Thanks :) 13:29 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:29 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:29 -!- ShawnBeasley [n=shb@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:29 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 13:30 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:31 <@gmc> i feel a vote coming on 13:31 < CDot> sorry, catching up; pharvey said "that was confusing" - I replied: 13:31 < CDot> (13:23:21) CDot: pharvey: sorry; it was confusing here as well 13:31 < CDot> (13:23:58) CDot: we ended up by focusing on the byelaw, and agreeing that we must have a privacy policy, but not a byelwa that dictates members must observe them 13:31 < CDot> (13:24:12) CDot: though IMHO we should re-propose that as a byelaw. 13:31 <@MTempest> The association should hold the rights to the domains 13:31 <@pharvey> if members don't observe them, then what is the point of the policy document 13:31 < CDot> question is: should the foswiki assosciation take over specific listed relevant domain names? 13:32 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:32 < CDot> pharvey: my point exactly 13:32 <@MTempest> CDot: yes, the association should 13:32 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:32 <@pharvey> Yes, association should hold .net/.com. But just redirect to .org IMHO 13:32 < CDot> SvenDowideit: this impacts you more than most, as the domain owner/payer 13:32 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:32 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:33 <@pharvey> Sven is in pumpkin mode IIRC 13:33 <@ColasHome> ShawnBeasley: audio aout 13:33 <@MTempest> pharvey: the association should hold them. What it should do with them is another issue. 13:33 < CDot> OK, then let's vote that Sven pays for all domains, for ever and ever 13:33 <@MTempest> I am not opposed to redirecting to .org 13:33 < plennon> I agree with pharvey. They should just redirect to .org 13:33 < IsaacLin> audio out again? 13:33 <@pharvey> the issue is: do we accept recurring cost of holding these domains 13:33 <@pharvey> I say yes 13:33 <@pharvey> audio is out 13:34 <@ColasHome> ShawnBeasley: thanks 13:34 <@gmc> vote: ownership of foswiki.{org,net,com,de,org.cn} is with the association and all point to the current foswiki.org 13:34 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:34 <@MartinRowe> yes 13:34 <@pharvey> gmc: yes 13:34 <@MTempest> gmc: yes 13:34 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:34 <@ColasHome> yes (but net com org is sufficent in my view) 13:34 < plennon> yes 13:34 <@pharvey> [off] foswiki.org.de is evidently owned already. 13:35 <@pharvey> Agree with ColasHome about net com org. 13:35 <@MTempest> China is a big market - I suggest we should not ignore it. 13:35 < CDot> MTempest: the voten is in favour 13:35 <@ColasHome> there are going to be thousands of top level domains 13:35 -!- CoriaXu [n=coriaxu@58.247.206.168] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:35 <@pharvey> well, we pick 10 :) 13:35 < CDot> of course there has to be money in the association 13:36 <@pharvey> CoriaXu: nice timing :) 13:36 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o CDot] by gmc 13:37 <@CDot> foswiki.org.de is owned by a domain squatter 13:37 <@CDot> (thx to ThomasHaeck for that info) 13:37 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:38 < plennon> is audio out or am I doing something wrong? 13:38 <@MTempest> [off] For those who joined this channel late: http://irclogs.foswiki.org/bin/irclogger_log/foswiki-summit?date=2009-11-21,Sat 13:38 <@CDot> audio coming back 13:39 <@pharvey> thanks, audio++ 13:41 <@pharvey> our research group is member of several standards committees, I feel I would have trouble pushing for more than $200 USD per year for Foswiki membership though (bioinformatics team I am in is very small :-). 13:41 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:43 <@gmc> Lynnwood: do you know how much a trademark is in the us? 13:43 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o ColasHome] by gmc 13:43 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o carlo1] by gmc 13:43 -!- Irssi: #foswiki-summit: Total of 22 nicks [12 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 9 normal] 13:43 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+oooo andreli ArthurClemens CoriaXu IsaacLin] by gmc 13:43 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+oooo Lynnwood MartinSeibert MichaelDaum plennon] by gmc 13:43 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o wwwolf] by gmc 13:43 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:43 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:43 <@Lynnwood> y, i filed the foswiki trademark 13:43 <@Lynnwood> it was ~$330 iir 13:43 <@Lynnwood> i can look it up 13:43 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:43 <@Lynnwood> i just received certificate recently 13:43 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:44 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:44 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:47 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:47 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:47 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:52 <@MTempest> Is the foswiki.org server completely paid for yet? 13:52 <@unixhag> You want me to pay for the opportunity to work for free? Gotta be kidding. 13:52 <@MTempest> gmc: ^ 13:52 <@IsaacLin> audio out again? 13:52 <@unixhag> yeah 13:52 <@pharvey> unixhag: you don't have to be a member to conribute to foswiki. 13:53 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:53 <@unixhag> pharvey: why on earth would someone want to pay to be a member? 13:53 <@gmc> we're now discussing membership fee 13:53 <@pharvey> They have a concern for the functional existence of Foswiki as an entity beyond the product 13:53 <@gmc> MTempest: do you mean the hardware or the hosting? 13:54 <@gmc> hosting i'm providing free of charge 13:54 <@pharvey> Developers are focused on code, product. 13:54 <@MTempest> hardware 13:54 <@gmc> server is half paid by donations, half by me 13:54 <@gmc> well bit more than half donations actually 13:54 <@pharvey> Association members care about protecting Foswiki's existence, legally, domains, etc. 13:54 <@gmc> unixhag: you don't have to be a member to work on foswiki 13:54 <@unixhag> I care. I cannot pay. 13:55 <@pharvey> unixhag: nobody has asked anybody to pay 13:55 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:55 <@pharvey> it is my understanding the initial membership status is free. 13:55 <@gmc> we're voting now on three possible fees: EUR 20,- / year, EUR 10,- / year or EUR 0,- per year 13:55 <@MTempest> gmc: did you reasonably expect to recover the remaining cost? If so, then this should be raised now. I.e. I raise it :) 13:55 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:55 <@gmc> MTempest: i've written that off already, so i'm happy with the situation as is.. 13:56 <@unixhag> the proposal is for association members to pay. That proposal stinks. 13:56 <@Lynnwood> i put out $ for foswiki trademark but am not concerned for that. i think the association needs some funds, although i'm fine donating the trademark. i don't expect to be reinbursed for that. 13:56 <@gmc> only thing is, with this talk of 'sponsors'.. if any sponsors buys a logo on foswiki.org, i want one too 13:56 <@gmc> ok 13:56 <@gmc> we're voting now 13:56 <@gmc> we first vote on EUR 20,-, yes or no 13:56 -!- frogpond [n=martin@HSI-KBW-078-043-045-042.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #foswiki-summit [] 13:56 < CDot> vote for 20, 10 or 0 euros 13:56 <@MTempest> 20: no 13:56 <@pharvey> is there a distinction between individuals vs organisations? 13:56 <@unixhag> no 13:56 <@MTempest> 10: yes 13:56 < CDot> if you pay 0, you can still donate 13:57 <@plennon> 20 Yes. We need to raise funds 13:57 <@OliverKrueger> no distiction yet. 13:57 <@pharvey> 20 Yes. foswiki.org needs to be sustainable. 13:57 <@OliverKrueger> orgs can donate nontheless. 13:57 <@gmc> ok, the vote has been editted once again :( 13:57 <@gmc> options are EUR 10,- or EUR 0,- 13:57 <@IsaacLin> If I recall correctly, orgs cannot be active members (can be supporting members) 13:58 < CDot> they can still donate 13:58 <@unixhag> this is not the only way to get money, and not the best 13:58 <@gmc> now voting EUR 10,- or EUR 0,- (if you voted, please vote agian :) 13:58 <@pharvey> 10 euro 13:58 <@plennon> 10 euro yes 13:58 <@MTempest> 10 13:58 <@MartinRowe> 10 euro 13:58 <@unixhag> 0 euro 13:58 <@pharvey> unixhag: no other options have been tabled 13:58 <@IsaacLin> (just responding to question about a difference between individuals and organizations) 13:59 <@unixhag> and sven has fallen asleep 13:59 <@gmc> total: 12 for EUR 10, 8 for EUR 0 13:59 <@gmc> still haggling about the count though :) 14:00 <@unixhag> I thought membership was about other things, not about being a sponsor 14:00 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:00 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:00 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:00 <@gmc> recounting :) 14:00 <@gmc> (i'm about to give up :) 14:00 <@unixhag> 0 14:00 <@unixhag> sven would say 0 if it were not the middle of the night 14:00 <@gmc> 12 for EUR 10, 11 for EUR 0 (including online votes) 14:01 <@pharvey> unixhag: member non-commercial orgs depend on membership fees. our research group pays money to various non-profits that take care of XML schemas (boring). 14:01 <@unixhag> Fine. You don' 14:01 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:01 <@unixhag> And you don't even need your research group to pay for your lunch, you can buy that yourself, right? I can't. 14:02 < CDot> Lynnwood: your vote? 14:02 <@Lynnwood> catching up 14:02 <@gmc> moving on 14:02 <@Lynnwood> vote 10 14:02 < CDot> majority vote, conclusion is 10 euros for the first year 14:03 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:03 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:03 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:04 <@gmc> voting on: http://foswiki.org/Community/TaskForceReportingProposal 14:04 <@gmc> vote yes or no 14:04 < CDot> do we accept the proposal or not? 14:04 <@IsaacLin> I could not hear the discussion; any questions on the proposal? 14:04 <@gmc> most of the room votes no (minus 1 undecided) 14:04 <@gmc> no discussion 14:04 <@gmc> just voting 14:04 <@MTempest> No audio 14:04 <@pharvey> no reporting 14:04 <@plennon> Yes - I agree with the need for a monthly report 14:05 < CDot> the point made was made was that we haven't agreed on task team governance 14:05 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:05 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:05 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:05 <@MTempest> I find it problematic that there is little visibility as to what the task forces are doing, if anything. I do not agree that the proposal is the best way to address this. 14:06 <@IsaacLin> In the interim, it would still be nice to have reports issued though. 14:06 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:07 <@unixhag> And make them pay a 10 euro fee with each late report, after all foswiki needs money. 14:07 < CDot> nice one 14:07 <@plennon> unixhag -- :) 14:07 <@pharvey> with compound interest 14:07 <@pharvey> I'm wary of reports that create extra work unless the benefits are clear 14:08 < CDot> given the rate at which the pound is devaluing, 10 euros will be my annual salary quite soon :-( 14:08 <@IsaacLin> I listed my thoughts on the benefits in the proposal 14:09 < CDot> IsaacLin: the 10 euro proposal? or the regular meetins one? 14:09 * pharvey thinks a blog would be better ;-) 14:09 <@IsaacLin> the frequency can be set so that the cost/benefit ratio is maximized 14:09 <@IsaacLin> the task force reporting one 14:09 <@gmc> oh we're discussing http://foswiki.org/Community/PlanningAndOpsForumProposal curently btw 14:09 <@IsaacLin> the report can be a blog entry 14:10 <@gmc> the report thing has been rejected already 14:10 < CDot> IsaacLin: there is nothinbg stopping that; we are just saying we don't want to legislate it as a requirement 14:10 <@IsaacLin> well, I wrote my thoughts on the benefits for the Planning and Ops forum too 14:10 <@gmc> discussion: this is basically the release meetings we had on the other project, with some extra 14:11 <@gmc> we have managed fine without these meetings now, but there's undecided proposals piling up, so something of a decision making meeting is due to happen soon 14:11 <@gmc> discussion shifts to role of the board, board should not be all executing, but delegate to task teams 14:11 <@IsaacLin> There's a gap at the moment; task teams don't feel empowered, and those not on task teams feel out of the loop 14:12 <@Lynnwood> i believe strongly in the need for some such regular event to give the community shape and move it forward 14:12 <@IsaacLin> long-term issues don't get dealt as well as desirable 14:12 <@pharvey> Despite not wanting the reports, I also wonder how we could improve our current workflow wrt to more structured collaboration 14:13 <@Lynnwood> recall how the regular irc release meetings accelerated t(m)wiki 14:13 <@Lynnwood> to excape velocity ;-) 14:13 <@Lynnwood> escape 14:13 <@pharvey> muhaha 14:13 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:13 <@gmc> everyone now looking at irc at the beamer 14:13 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:14 <@MTempest> gmc: What does "at the beamer" mean? 14:14 < CDot> MTempest: admiring the white wall with the dancing lights shining on it 14:14 <@gmc> oh sorry.. 14:14 <@gmc> beamer is what we call a projector in .nl 14:14 <@MTempest> ah :) 14:15 <@gmc> the magic lantern 14:16 <@plennon> I agree with Lynnwood. The release meetings were very useful on the old project.. That along with the task teams would be a good way to clarify the most important tasks 14:16 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:16 <@MTempest> I agree with Lynwood, too 14:16 <@gmc> we are now voting on this proposal 14:17 <@gmc> http://foswiki.org/Community/PlanningAndOpsForumProposal 14:17 <@gmc> ok 14:17 <@Lynnwood> i support it 14:17 <@MartinRowe> gmc: yes 14:17 <@plennon> I support it. 14:17 <@MTempest> I support it 14:17 <@pharvey> I wish it wasn't so specific. 14:17 < CDot> vote is whether we accept the specific proposal - yes or no 14:18 < CDot> pharvey: your vote? 14:18 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:18 <@pharvey> CDot: undecided. 14:18 <@IsaacLin> pharvey: sorry, I wanted to give people a specific example about how to make the meeting work across the globe 14:18 <@IsaacLin> I intended it as a starting point for discussion 14:18 < CDot> IsaacLin: you are dead right to do so 14:19 <@ColasHome> ShawnBeasley: audio aout 14:19 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:19 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:19 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Success] 14:19 <@Lynnwood> audio lost again 14:19 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:19 <@gmc> proposal was rejected (including online votes) 14:20 <@Lynnwood> i support some manner of regularly scheduled meetings. that is what give community rhythm and existence. 14:20 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:20 <@IsaacLin> I hope if people are interested in the concept but not the details that a variation will be discussed and voted upon 14:20 <@Lynnwood> am not concerned terribly about frequency or structure 14:20 < CDot> IsaacLin: you are right, but, writing it into the association rules is the wrong place 14:20 <@pharvey> IsaacLin: Yes, I am sorry that this was rejected. We should follow up on this. 14:20 -!- ColasHome changed the topic of #foswiki-summit to: current topic: http://foswiki.org/Community/PlanningAndOpsForumProposal 14:21 <@pharvey> Maybe CDot is right. 14:21 < CDot> it is not rejected, except insofar as it will not be written into the belaws 14:21 <@Lynnwood> reading proposal, i have number of questions about the specifics 14:21 <@IsaacLin> This is a motion for operations, not a motion to write something into the bylaws 14:21 * ColasHome agrees with cdot 14:21 * Lynnwood wonders what cdot said... 14:21 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:21 <@ColasHome> belaws are just the minimum to avoid a twikinetization 14:21 <@IsaacLin> I would have put it on the proposed bylaws page if I were proposing a bylaw 14:22 <@Lynnwood> ah, yes, we don't need something like this in bylaws 14:22 <@Lynnwood> is simply operational 14:22 * MTempest understood it to be operational, and not related to bylaws 14:22 * pharvey also didn't think it was a bylaw 14:22 -!- stfnko [n=stefanko@chello089173062042.chello.sk] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:22 * Lynnwood fumbles between four application windows trying to keep track ;-) 14:23 < CDot> understood. But we are in the "official" part of the association meeting 14:23 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:23 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:23 < CDot> minutes are now online 14:24 <@unixhag> still no sound? 14:24 <@IsaacLin> I've said in email before that I believe at least one of the three is important for this project: task team reporting, some kind of planning meeting, stronger hierarchical reporting. 14:24 <@Lynnwood> y, no sound 14:24 -!- wwwolf [n=ingo@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #foswiki-summit [] 14:24 < CDot> working on it 14:24 <@IsaacLin> #3 doesn't fit the our current participation model well, so one of the first two 14:24 < MichaelDaum> notes online at http://foswiki.org/Community/FoswikiSummit09MeetingMinutes 14:24 <@ColasHome> sound 14:24 <@Lynnwood> sound back on. thanks 14:24 < MichaelDaum> please add your 2cent 14:24 * pharvey would like planning meetings 14:24 * MTempest too 14:25 -!- ColasHome changed the topic of #foswiki-summit to: notes online at http://foswiki.org/Community/FoswikiSummit09MeetingMinutes 14:25 < CDot> thanks to everyone online as well 14:25 <@MartinRowe> Thanks to those who've relayed to irc - much appreciated :) 14:26 <@Lynnwood> i am entirely comfortable with board dictating some organizational practices such as community or task group meetings 14:26 <@pharvey> [off] as a VoIP wrangler (over 2-way satellite no less), I can appreciate the effort in making the audio available, too. 14:26 <@Lynnwood> allow us to change them easily over time for what works, not requiring formal organizational action 14:26 <@ColasHome> especially since boards have (very) active developers, they wont tolerate too heavy processes :-) 14:26 <@Lynnwood> y, being able to hear the discussions is very helpful 14:27 < CDot> ok, we're having 10 mins break before starting on OpenSpace 14:27 <@pharvey> unfortunately I have to sleep 14:27 <@MTempest> Sleep well :) 14:27 <@unixhag> what's OpenSpace? Is the meeting finished? 14:27 <@pharvey> OpenSpace is where the interesting stuff happens 14:28 <@IsaacLin> given the resistance, I had hoped a general agreement on the idea of meetings could be reached. So hopefully the followup discussion will be fruitful. 14:28 < CDot> many thx to all IRC participants for your patience 14:28 * pharvey hoped to see MichaelDaum's solrplugin in action :( 14:28 <@ColasHome> definitely thanks for the real-to-virtual gateway providers! 14:28 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:28 <@pharvey> IsaacLin, yes I don't think anybody is against it. Probably a foswiki-discuss post is required. 14:28 < CDot> IsaacLin: I would like to follow up on your proposals; we need to get some organisation details worked out first (how the board is going to work) 14:28 -!- CoriaXu9 [n=coriaxu@58.247.206.168] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:29 < CDot> and we need to revisit the task teams proposal, try and understand how (and if) it will work 14:29 <@IsaacLin> Sure thing 14:29 <@ColasHome> unixhag: http://www.openspaceworld.org/ - and yes meeting is over 14:30 <@unixhag> Thanks. The minutes seem to contain a bit of stuff I didn't hear, will have to read it after some sleep. 14:32 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:33 <@Lynnwood> well, glad i caught the last part of meeting just to share the buzz 14:35 -!- stfnko [n=stefanko@chello089173062042.chello.sk] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:35 -!- CoriaXu5 [n=coriaxu@58.247.206.168] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:36 <@IsaacLin> will there be any more of the summit available online? 14:37 <@Lynnwood> i'm wondering also... 14:37 < CoriaXu5> wht is the next event? 14:37 <@Lynnwood> i would be interested in taking part in some of the open space. perhaps at least some irc. 14:38 < CoriaXu5> it is around 3:40pm at Hannover now ryt? 14:38 <@Lynnwood> etherpad is pretty slick 14:38 <@Lynnwood> y, i believe so. 14:39 < CoriaXu5> open space will start today? isn't it on sunday as in the agenda? 14:39 <@Lynnwood> perhaps so 14:39 <@IsaacLin> I guess there is still time before their dinner, so they can spend it holding discussion groups 14:39 <@Lynnwood> so they break at 3:30 pm? must be getting thirsty! ;-) 14:40 * Lynnwood dreams of good german beer... 14:44 -!- CoriaXu [n=coriaxu@58.247.206.168] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:45 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:47 <@plennon> So we're finished so? 14:48 <@Lynnwood> it would appear... 14:48 <@Lynnwood> i'm going to leave up windows just in case 14:50 <@plennon> Pity we couldn't have had some presentation slides along with audio... 14:50 <@gmc> i wonder what happens next 14:50 <@pharvey> Yes. I demand screencasts :-) 14:50 <@gmc> plennon: maybe if we start preparing for it now, we will have better online presence next year :) 14:50 <@Lynnwood> the video stream would have been cool 14:51 <@IsaacLin> plennon: not sure if there were any slides in the room? 14:51 <@gmc> no slides 14:51 <@gmc> just browsing the wiki and irc 14:51 -!- CoriaXu9 [n=coriaxu@58.247.206.168] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:51 <@Lynnwood> admittedly, it was a bit distracting fumbling between irc, mumble, wiki and etherpad 14:51 <@IsaacLin> I'd settle for better audio before any video. Though better than nothing, it was tricky to understand most people. 14:52 <@plennon> How are the openspaces happening then? just on laptops? showing/explaining to people informally? 14:52 <@Lynnwood> y, the audio was essential for me, even if not great 14:53 <@IsaacLin> plennon: I think just informal groups setting up to talk about stuff? 14:54 <@plennon> gmc - Hope to be there next year... 14:54 <@pharvey> right, I'm off. Have fun everybody 14:54 -!- pharvey [n=chatzill@124-168-205-11.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceweasel 3.0.12/2009102815]"] 14:54 <@plennon> IssacLin - Thats what I was thinking.. Thats the fun part... 14:55 -!- procopio [n=chatzill@89.214.14.3] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:55 < procopio> hi again 14:56 <@plennon> gmc - I can't believe you didn't get all the money for the server. I can give a bit more if you want? 14:56 <@Lynnwood> hey procopio - looks like the group meeting has pretty much wrapped up 14:57 < procopio> so ..what were the conclusions!!! 14:57 < procopio> ? 14:57 <@plennon> procopio 14:57 <@plennon> http://foswiki.org/Community/FoswikiSummit09MeetingMinutes 14:58 <@IsaacLin> IRC log: http://irclogs.foswiki.org/bin/irclogger_log/foswiki-summit?date=2009-11-21,Sat 15:00 < CDot> no, we are back 15:00 < CDot> the association meeting is over, but we will continue with open spaces now 15:00 < CDot> until we get too tired/bored/both 15:01 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:02 < procopio> i guess there isnt a way remote people can participate on open space issues 15:04 < CDot> i think it's tricky; though we can try to share 15:05 < CDot> i'm not sure how it's going to work yet - MartinSeibert is facilitating it 15:05 <@IsaacLin> CDot: regarding the FLOSS show: did you agree to participate? 15:05 <@plennon> Don't know who's sitting by the microphone but it sounds interesting.. 15:05 < procopio> yes it does!!! 15:06 < procopio> but it seems a lot of "hands on" ... 15:06 < procopio> :( 15:07 < procopio> this sucks!!! 15:08 < CoriaXu5> dont worry procopio, it is first time isnt it.. 15:09 <@gmc> plennon: oh that was about otrs i guess :) 15:11 < CDot> IsaacLin: I don't think so..... if it's now, I wouldn't have - I'm in this meeting! 15:11 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:11 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:11 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:12 -!- MTempest [n=chatzill@vc-41-18-187-152.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:12 <@IsaacLin> No, it would be a scheduled interview between Randal Schwartz or his co-host and you (Martin had sent an email on foswiki-discuss about it) 15:12 < AndreU> uh, did I kicked them out? 15:12 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #foswiki-summit [] 15:14 < procopio> im leaving... 15:14 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:14 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:14 < procopio> will there be some kind of a "record" of the open spaces? 15:14 <@Lynnwood> i'm wondering also. i certainly interested in some of them. 15:14 < procopio> yeap! 15:15 <@Lynnwood> audio is gone but don't guess that matters much at this point. 15:15 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:15 < procopio> yeaaa... 15:15 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:16 < procopio> welll im off then 15:16 < procopio> bye guys 15:16 < procopio> enjoy the open spaces (bastards) 15:17 < procopio> :) 15:17 <@Lynnwood> bye procopio 15:17 <@plennon> I'm off too.. Enjoy. 15:17 -!- procopio [n=chatzill@89.214.14.3] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 15:17 <@gmc> adios ppl 15:18 -!- plennon [n=chatzill@79.97.113.116] has left #foswiki-summit [] 15:19 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:21 -!- mzeecedric [n=mzeecedr@e181176218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #foswiki-summit [] 15:23 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:23 -!- IngoK [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:23 < IngoK> I put a possibly more official topic holding all people currently members of Foswiki: http://foswiki.org/Community/CurrentFoswikiMembers 15:25 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:25 < IngoK> Do you agree we need that? If yes I see where to link it in from. 15:29 < MartinSeibert> I love Open Space. 15:29 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:29 -!- IngoK [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:31 <@IsaacLin> IngoK: If it is an official list, then maybe depending on data in the user topics isn't the best way? (I know, it is the most convenient way.) 15:31 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:32 -!- IngoK [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:32 <@IsaacLin> [off] IngoK: If it is an official list, then maybe depending on data in the user topics isn't the best way? (I know, it is the most convenient way.) 15:32 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:32 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:32 * IsaacLin claps 15:33 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:33 * IsaacLin unclaps: audio gone now :) 15:33 < CDot> shawn must have thumped his keyboard too hard 15:35 -!- CoriaXu5 [n=coriaxu@58.247.206.168] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 15:36 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:36 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:36 < CDot> martin wants everyone to demo a plugin to him 15:36 < CDot> anyone fancy demoing wysiwyg plugin? 15:37 < IngoK> IsaacLin: Left column is based on the official list and doesn't rely on user topics. The right column makes it visible if users have adjusted their hompage accordingly. 15:38 -!- andreli [i=4d15ebd8@gateway/web/freenode/x-iwskwhonfvdwkpnu] has quit ["Page closed"] 15:39 <@IsaacLin> IngoK: Perhaps the status column could be displayed only on demand? I think most people coming to see a list of members won't care about it, and it may confuse them. 15:41 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:45 -!- Carlo [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:46 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 15:46 -!- Carlo is now known as Guest79109 15:46 -!- Guest79109 is now known as carlo_ 15:47 -!- carlo_ is now known as carlo2 15:55 <@IsaacLin> I guess audio gone for good? 15:56 < carlo2> hmm, don't know 15:57 < carlo2> micheal daum is giving a talk on his application workbench 16:03 -!- plennon [n=chatzill@79.97.113.116] has joined #foswiki-summit 16:03 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:05 < CDot> we are discussing internationalisation 16:06 < CDot> I'm asserting that there is no real big problem with unicode support in the core - except we need lots of organised testers 16:06 < CDot> just discussing ways in which multiple languagescan be supported for topics in the same wiki 16:34 -!- Carlo [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 16:35 -!- Carlo is now known as Guest31628 16:35 -!- Guest31628 is now known as carlo1 16:37 < MartinSeibert> We have just finished the Screencasting-Session. Here are the results: http://foswiki.org/Community/FoswikiScreencastingGuide 16:43 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 16:48 -!- carlo1 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 16:49 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 16:50 < MichaelDaum> good nite see you 2morrow 16:50 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:51 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 16:51 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:52 -!- carlo2 [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:05 -!- IsaacLin [n=Isaac@bas9-ottawa23-1242450360.dsl.bell.ca] has left #foswiki-summit [] 17:09 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:12 -!- IngoK [n=chatzill@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:21 -!- MTempest [n=chatzill@vc-41-17-86-177.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #foswiki-summit 17:24 -!- plennon [n=chatzill@79.97.113.116] has left #foswiki-summit [] 17:55 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has joined #foswiki-summit 18:31 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@g224246006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 19:11 -!- MTempest [n=chatzill@vc-41-17-86-177.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:38 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has quit [] 20:50 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@g224246006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 21:59 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has joined #foswiki-summit 23:02 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@g226092240.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 23:05 -!- MartinRowe [n=MartinRo@cpc3-seac19-2-0-cust249.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["Leaving."] --- Day changed Sun Nov 22 2009 00:00 -!- gac410 [n=gac410@ns1.fenachrone.com] has joined #foswiki-summit 01:09 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has quit [] 02:48 -!- Netsplit farmer.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: @Babar, @SvenDowideit, @unixhag 02:49 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @Babar, @SvenDowideit, @unixhag 02:54 -!- SvenDowiu [n=SvenDowi@203-206-242-180.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #foswiki-summit 03:01 -!- Netsplit farmer.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: @unixhag, @SvenDowideit, @Babar 03:01 -!- SvenDowiu is now known as SvenDowideit 03:04 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @Babar, @unixhag 03:07 -!- SvenDowiu [n=SvenDowi@203-206-242-180.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #foswiki-summit 03:38 -!- SvenDowideit [n=SvenDowi@203-206-242-180.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:38 -!- SvenDowiu is now known as SvenDowideit 06:03 -!- gac410 [n=gac410@ns1.fenachrone.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:45 -!- Netsplit farmer.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: @Babar, @unixhag 06:45 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @Babar, @unixhag 07:55 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@g226092240.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 08:20 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 08:21 < CDot> SvenDowideit: around? 08:22 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@188.96.238.27] has joined #foswiki-summit 08:23 <@gmc> howdy 08:23 -!- Irssi: #foswiki-summit: Total of 10 nicks [6 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 3 normal] 08:23 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 08:23 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+ooo AndreU CDot SvenDowideit] by gmc 08:25 -!- Irssi: #foswiki-summit: Total of 11 nicks [9 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 1 normal] 08:25 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o MartinSeibert] by gmc 08:25 <@MartinSeibert> IsaacLin: Perhaps at the summit with many people there, you can close off on who will do the interview for the FLOSS podcast? <== I talked to Crawford Currie and he will do it. 08:36 <@gmc> michael is summarizing hist session yesterday on the wiki workbench, which brings the abstraction of the mvc to the wiki platform 08:37 <@gmc> (is anyone interested in me relaying the proceedings atm btw???) 08:37 -!- andreli [i=4d15ebd8@gateway/web/freenode/x-vigmfkilzqpausti] has joined #foswiki-summit 08:40 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o andreli] by gmc 08:56 <@MartinSeibert> gmc talks about internationalization 08:56 <@MartinSeibert> ... and about UTF8. 08:57 <@MartinSeibert> He sums up their session. 09:02 <@MartinSeibert> http://foswiki.org/Community/FoswikiScreencastingGuide 09:05 -!- andreli [i=4d15ebd8@gateway/web/freenode/x-vigmfkilzqpausti] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 09:07 <@CDot> bad taste video screencast: scene shows fast jet flying over desert; camera pans in to pilot, drops into the cockpit; view turns to the instrument panel; pilot is mousing over a Foswiki page..... 09:22 <@MartinSeibert> http://etherpad.com/6UtpqiEWlH 09:22 <@MartinSeibert> For the brainstorming: http://etherpad.com/6UtpqiEWlH 09:26 <@gmc> people are now idscussing how to use naked women for foswiki promotion 10:00 <@gmc> i don't really understand ohloh.. how to i make my commits show up?? 10:03 -!- andreli [i=4d15ebd8@gateway/web/freenode/x-rmbyvserysnpamkg] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:05 -!- andreli [i=4d15ebd8@gateway/web/freenode/x-rmbyvserysnpamkg] has left #foswiki-summit [] 10:10 -!- stfnko [n=stefanko@chello089173062042.chello.sk] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:11 -!- MartinRowe [n=MartinRo@cpc3-seac19-2-0-cust249.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:12 -!- Irssi: #foswiki-summit: Total of 13 nicks [10 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 2 normal] 10:12 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+oo MartinRowe stfnko] by gmc 10:12 <@gmc> anyone listening? 10:13 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:15 -!- mode/#foswiki-summit [+o MichaelDaum] by OliverKrueger, OliverKrueger 10:16 <@gmc> tool listing example: http://wiki.digitalmethods.net/Dmi/ToolDatabase 10:17 <@stfnko> just "watching". unfortunately, i cannot pay full attention right now :-( 10:33 <@gmc> We shall never mention the T-word again 10:46 -!- plennon [n=chatzill@79.97.113.116] has joined #foswiki-summit 10:53 <@AndreU> hej there, I still feeling sick 10:54 <@AndreU> hope you have fun on the summit and Hannover :-) 11:22 <@gmc> hope you feel better soon! 11:22 <@gmc> we've arrived at pizza break time again.. 11:22 <@gmc> will eugen join us today btw? 11:28 <@MartinSeibert> I revised the press release: http://foswiki.org/Community/PressReleaseFoswiki22x11x09 11:31 <@SvenDowideit> CDot, only ish, and clearly much later :/ 11:40 <@AndreU> thanks gmc 11:40 <@AndreU> Ja, Eugen and Sven will be there in about 25 min 11:41 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@188.96.238.27] has quit [] 11:41 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:42 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has quit [Client Quit] 12:05 -!- plennon [n=chatzill@79.97.113.116] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:05 -!- plennon [n=chatzill@79.97.113.116] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:28 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@g226093187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:02 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 13:06 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:26 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:28 -!- MichaelDaum is now known as MichaelDaum_ 13:38 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 13:48 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 13:58 -!- Coria [n=coria@58.247.207.168] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:01 -!- stfnko [n=stefanko@chello089173062042.chello.sk] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:18 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 14:20 -!- sreher [n=sreher@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 14:21 -!- Coria [n=coria@58.247.207.168] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 14:33 -!- Coria [n=coria@58.247.207.168] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:34 < Coria> hi anybody here? 14:34 < Coria> how is the openspace? closed? 14:46 -!- Coria [n=coria@58.247.207.168] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 14:51 <@gmc> everyone is about leaving now 14:53 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@80.187.208.47] has joined #foswiki-summit 14:54 -!- MartinSeibert [n=mseibert@80.187.208.47] has quit [Client Quit] 15:01 -!- MichaelDaum_ [n=micha@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:04 -!- CDot [n=Crawford@77-21-235-216-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:12 < AndreU> gmc, you are still there? 15:39 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@g226093187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #foswiki-summit [] 16:25 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has joined #foswiki-summit 17:06 -!- plennon_ [n=chatzill@79.97.113.116] has joined #foswiki-summit 17:06 -!- plennon [n=chatzill@79.97.113.116] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:06 -!- plennon_ is now known as plennon 17:25 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has quit [] 19:49 -!- plennon [n=chatzill@79.97.113.116] has left #foswiki-summit [] 21:50 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has joined #foswiki-summit 22:06 -!- MartinRowe [n=MartinRo@cpc3-seac19-2-0-cust249.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:31 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has quit [] 22:33 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has joined #foswiki-summit 23:38 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has quit [] --- Day changed Mon Nov 23 2009 00:10 -!- sreher [n=sreher@g226088120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 00:45 -!- sreher [n=sreher@g226088120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:55 -!- sreher [n=sreher@g226088120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 02:03 -!- Lynnwood [n=lynnwood@twiki/developer/lynnwood] has quit [] 02:28 -!- sreher [n=sreher@g226088120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 09:14 -!- OliverKrueger [n=nnnnnnok@static.236.211.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has left #foswiki-summit [] 09:35 -!- sreher [n=sreher@g226088120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:11 -!- sreher [n=sreher@g226088120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 11:32 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has joined #foswiki-summit 11:41 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:41 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has joined #foswiki-summit 12:06 -!- sreher [n=sreher@188.96.238.27] has quit [] 12:09 -!- Lynnwood [n=lynnwood@twiki/developer/lynnwood] has joined #foswiki-summit 18:22 -!- Lynnwood [n=lynnwood@twiki/developer/lynnwood] has left #foswiki-summit [] 20:17 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@ip56507f6a.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #foswiki-summit 20:18 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@ip56507f6a.direct-adsl.nl] has left #foswiki-summit [] 22:10 -!- SvenDowiu [n=SvenDowi@203-214-34-179.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #foswiki-summit 22:26 -!- SvenDowideit [n=SvenDowi@203-206-242-180.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 22:26 -!- SvenDowiu is now known as SvenDowideit --- Day changed Tue Nov 24 2009 18:57 -!- stfnko [n=stefanko@chello089173062042.chello.sk] has joined #foswiki-summit