TWiki-Advertisements - Do we want to place ads on "TWiki"-searches?

Why advertise?

It is unlikely that TWIKI.NET will allow any mention of Foswiki on www.twiki.org. Nevertheless people that search for "TWiki" are most relevant to us. (Note: Wikipedia doesn't list foswiki on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wiki_software)

Advertise on Google

We could have advertisements on Google for Foswiki, if somebody searches for "TWiki". (NextWiki? twikifork?) The association should pay for it out of donations. We could start advertising right away, by just using the 1.000,00 Euro from my company to invest in NextWiki-Advertising.

Google AdWords - campaign for Foswiki

• Ads can contain, including spaces, 25 characters for the title, 70 characters for the ad text, and 35 characters for a display URL. On Google, this is displayed on four lines: a title, two lines of ad text (each with 35 characters), and a URL line. However, the format may differ on Google partner sites. Learn more ...
• How do I optimize my ad text?
• Placement: Worldwide, English language
• The lesser keywords the lesser costs will occur.
• We would start with a maximum CPC of 0,15 Euro.
• Our daily budget will be limited to 10,00 Euro max. I assume, that we will not pay more than 2-5 Euros per day.
• Our CPC Content bids will be limited to 0,02 Euro.
• If the 1000 Euros run out the campaign goes offline also.

• What will this buy us? What is the current minimal bid for the TWiki keyword?? What if TDN outbids us (as they probably will)? * KoenMartens - 23 Nov 2008 - 14:06

Please help	Please see the list of ad texts and change and add new version according to your thoughts. Good ad texts are very important! They also save money. So please help to improve that.

Keywords, that we target

• TWiki (broad match)
• Twiky
• Twyky
• Twyki
• wiki

Ad rotation: All ad texts can be shown in a rotation. So feel free to add as much variants as you like.

1. Example for Ad-Texts for Foswiki

• Title: Switch from TWiki now (Max 25 characters)
• First line: TWiki community moved to Foswiki.(Max 35 characters)
• Second line: Foswiki - Free Open-Source Wiki (Max 35 characters)
• Display URL: www.foswiki.org (Max 35 characters)
• Destination URL: www.foswiki.org (Max 1024 characters)

2. Example for Ad-Texts for Foswiki

• Title: Foswiki succeeds TWiki (Max 25 characters)
• First line: Former TWiki community members move (Max 35 characters)
• Second line: to Foswiki - Free Open-Source Wiki (Max 35 characters)
• Display URL: www.foswiki.org (Max 35 characters)
• Destination URL: www.foswiki.org (Max 1024 characters)

3. Example for Ad-Texts for Foswiki

• Title: Upgrade TWiki to Foswiki (Max 25 characters)
• First line: Former TWiki community members move (Max 35 characters)
• Second line: to Foswiki - Free Open-Source Wiki (Max 35 characters)
• Display URL: www.foswiki.org (Max 35 characters)
• Destination URL: www.foswiki.org (Max 1024 characters)

4. Example for Ad-Texts for Foswiki

• Title: TWiki community renamed (Max 25 characters)
• First line: Former TWiki community members move (Max 35 characters)
• Second line: to Foswiki - Free Open-Source Wiki (Max 35 characters)
• Display URL: www.foswiki.org (Max 35 characters)
• Destination URL: www.foswiki.org (Max 1024 characters)

This is in-line with André's proposal that Foswiki is really just a "name only" fork and related to Eugene's comment that "its our best argument why people should really try foswiki" http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=49296BC6.7030905%40impressive-media.de&forum_name=foswiki-discuss

This also changes the positioning from "Foswiki is trying to compete with TWiki" to "TWiki is what's left after the community moved to Foswiki"

Summary of the initial draft for a campaign

Your opinion

I would like to see such ads on Google

1. MartinSeibert
2. RasmusPraestholm - would vote for option 2
3. ArthurClemens
4. KoenMartens
5. WillNorris
6. RobManson (for a general awareness campaign)
7. MichaelCorbett
8. [Put in your name]

I would not like to see such ads on Google

1. [Put in your name]
2. [Put in your name]

I would like, but...

1. ColasNahaboo yes, but only after we are sure the trademark, association and legal status are funded.
2. OliverKrueger yes, but maybe somebody else from outside of Germany should do that. At the moment its not fully clear, if you can get sued by trademark holders, even for "just similar" keywords. see c't article Suchmaschinenmarketing birgt rechtliche Risiken (p. 172)
3. [Put in your name] [Put in your objections]

Your comments

As my interest in foswiki is only for personal an non-commercial use, I do not think I would like my donation money to these ads. I would like to keep it to things essential to the life of the project (trademark, hosting, legal protection & the association). These advertisement, while extremely important to the commercial community around foswiki is not something I want to spend my personal money on. Perhaps the solution is to have 2 donation funds for foswiki: one for opensource, the other for commercial actions. Maybe donating to the commercial one could grant some kind of label "foswiki approved consulstant" to help the business around foswiki? Or maybe I am complexifying things, maybe the essentials steps will be done soon anyways, and people who donate afterwards will know it is for such actions? I thus created a "Yes, but" section, because I do not want to say "No" -- ColasNahaboo

I suspect that trademark issues may come up if "TWiki" is used in the ads, so just using phrases like "Switch to Foswiki now!", "Upgrade to Foswiki", "Improve with Foswiki", and so forth may be better. Regarding the title for the second sample ad: at least for North Americans, I believe the intransitive sense of "succeed" is more familiar, and so the title may be confusing. Suggest something like "Foswiki: the sequel". -- IsaacLin - 23 Nov 2008 - 17:55

of course we can use the word TWiki in advertisements. there certainly seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of how to use trademarks (probably need a circle-R in there, tho), and i am certainly no expert either. seems like we could use some legal counsel... lawyers are very cheap in mexico; i will see if i can find someone with trademark law and find out their rate.

frankly, i think the use of "succeed" and its (potential) double meaning is brilliant! in fact, it was my favorite ad!

-- WillNorris - 23 Nov 2008 - 18:25

My error; I was thinking that some of the moral rights associated with copyright would apply (using someone else's trademark in promotion of your product), but upon further review, the only right is to avoid confusion between products. As long as the text is scrupulously written to avoid confusion, it should be permissible (though I'm sure nonetheless there will be complaints).

Indicating a registration is not required legally. Its purpose is to avoid claims by an infringer that they did not know the term was trademarked. In a character-limited text ad, I think a trademark symbol would take up valuable space.

The problem with the supposed double meaning of "succeed" is that the non-succession related meaning is not grammatically correct, and will leave people scratching their heads thinking, instead of absorbing the message. -- IsaacLin - 23 Nov 2008 - 18:48

Under numerous jurisdictions, using a registered trademark as a Google keyword to lead traffic to www.foswiki.org would probably be considered as a trademark infringement, unless this is done with the agreement of the trademark owners. This is the case in the US -- see http://pub.bna.com/eclr/06cv2454_021508.pdf for a precedent -- where TWiki has been registered as a trademark by P.T. I would strongly advise you not to use it as such. In turn, what IsaacLin says is accurate to the extent the trademark is being used in a descriptive context, in an informative and illustrative manner (such as on the home page of www.foswiki.org - where the project explains how it is related to the "TWiki" project. In turn, use of "TWiki" as a keyword is a plain trademark use: it clearly aims to use the attractive function of the trademark. My feeling is that Foswiki visibility on Google searches should happen, if in relation to a "TWiki" keyword, because of highly ranked (in Google) third party websites talking about "TWiki" and linking to "Foswiki", or another natural referencing. I am not a SEO expert, so I would leave that to you - instead, my area of interest is IT law. -- RaulFRodriguez - 24 Nov 2008 - 02:08