AssociationBoardMinutes20210607

  • 06 June 2021 - 3pm UTC (5pm Hamburg Germany, 11am East Coast US - please correct if this is off)
  • IRC Chat on #foswiki-association channel

Attendees

Agenda

  1. planning for a next general assembly
  2. status of current memberships
  3. status of the project
  4. regular release meetings
  5. new release plan
  6. move from freenode to another platform, e.g. https://libera.chat/ or https://element.io/ (matrix),

Minutes

  1. Schedule for upcoming general assemblies:
    • September 20th at 3pm UTC - Extraordinary GA to approve 2021 Financial statements.
      • Invite to go out by August 9th, 2021
    • January 24th 3pm UTC - 2022 General Assembly.
      • Invite to go out by December 13, 2021
  2. Status of current memberships
    • In reviewing AssociationArticles, reminded that we need to set deadlines for updating memberships (and paying dues). Agreed that this will be included in announcments for upcoming meetings.
    • After September meeting, board will review membership status and update as needed.
  3. Status of project
    • Older idea of task teams not so relevant anymore.
    • Any help is helpful (particularly if reduce load for MichaelDaum): docu, testing, facilitating, blogging, being nice on irc. ... whatever
    • Top priority right now is testing 2.1.7 release candidate.
  4. Regular release meetings
    • The are happening regularly (every other Monday - see FoswikiCalendar) but need more participation.
    • Include invite to join in on release meetings in email to encourage testing of 2.1.7 - to exchange installer and test experiences.
    • Help out on testing various installers such as docker, vagrant, parallels etc.
  5. New release plan
    • Current priority is getting 2.1.7 out, then we will need to revisit and develop schedule for 2.2.0 and the direction of the project thereafter.
  6. Move from freenode to another platform.
    • After some discussion, decided to hold off on decision to see how things shake out a bit more and clarify requirements for making transition.

Follow up

  • Next scheduled board meeting July 12th - 3pm UTC
  • more to come...

Meeting Transcript

Lynnwood Brown  10:44 AM
Morning gang. Preparing for our board meeting in ~15.

MichaelDaumAPP  10:44 AM
good morning

Lynnwood Brown  10:45 AM
Hey there Micha - hope you summer is off to a good start.

Michael Daum  10:45 AM
Temeratures are fine finally. We had a pretty cold start this year.

Lynnwood Brown  10:46 AM
Same here. Been unseasonably cool for past month plus.

Wolfram Limper  10:48 AM
good morning Lynnwood, good aftternoonn Michael!

Michael Daum  10:48 AM
Hi there :slightly_smiling_face:
10:50
Alright. Nice to talk to you all.
10:51
Here is our agenda for today: https://foswiki.org/Community/AssociationBoardMinutes20210607

Wolfram Limper  10:51 AM
Yes, I have seen that before.

Lynnwood Brown  10:52 AM
yep. was just looking through it and also the minutes from last GA: https://foswiki.org/Community/GeneralAssemblyExtraordinary2021Minutes
10:53
Of note in the GA minutes was Kenneth's suggestion that we also schedule another extraordinary GA this year for single purpose of approving of 2020 financial statement.
10:53
If we're all here, I'm ready to start any time your all are.

Wolfram Limper  10:54 AM
what else except the date(time needs to be done by us now for topic one? (edited) 

Michael Daum  10:55 AM
I've finished the https://foswiki.org/Community/Finance/FinancialStatement2020 for 2020. So it is ready to be audited.

Lynnwood Brown  10:55 AM
So perhaps we could schedule the extraord GA in say Sept? (after summer breaks)

Wolfram Limper  10:55 AM
for the moment I’m impressed
10:56
sounds good

Michael Daum  10:56 AM
yes thats fine I guess

Lynnwood Brown  10:56 AM
Thank you Michael for doing that work to pull that together. Thankless job...
10:57
well can't say thankless now... but at the least tedious.

Michael Daum  10:57 AM
Before the GA, we should check the membership status of the various people.
10:58
and contact them wrt their payment n stuff.
10:58
current status is here: https://foswiki.org/Community/CurrentFoswikiMembers

Wolfram Limper  10:58 AM
yes, for me I think I have to pay something

Lynnwood Brown  10:58 AM
Mass email or individual reachout?

Michael Daum  10:58 AM
Wolfram, was going to say.
10:59
BCC email might be just fine.

Lynnwood Brown  10:59 AM
We should at the least send email to all who have been member in past couple of years prior to both extraord. GA and regular with reminders about check status.
11:00
Actually... given the numbers, I would go back at least 4 years.

Michael Daum  11:00 AM
I am unsure what the rules are for being moved from "active" to "supporting" members.

Lynnwood Brown  11:00 AM
I will check that now.

Wolfram Limper  11:00 AM
no reminder was the reason for me why I have not payed for 2020 and 2021…

Lynnwood Brown  11:01 AM
Also send a message out to the general email list inviting folks to joing.

Michael Daum  11:01 AM
yes, it should be an anual reminder going out to all in the list.

Lynnwood Brown  11:01 AM
yep.

Wolfram Limper  11:01 AM
definitively

Lynnwood Brown  11:02 AM
After we've set dates for these two meetings, let's send out general announcement soon with that reminder and then again a few weeks prior to each meeting.
11:02
I'll draft and schedule those email to go out.

Michael Daum  11:03 AM
Is that in addition to the membership reminder email?

Lynnwood Brown  11:03 AM
I guess I'm thinking in short-term right now. Also should schedule annual reminder.

Michael Daum  11:04 AM
I'll try to fix that into my calendar as I am the treasurer anyway ... meh (edited) 

Lynnwood Brown  11:04 AM
I'm just thinking combining the email of accoucements and reminders as including reason to update membership.

Wolfram Limper  11:05 AM
I think one email is sufficient, and then a reminder a few days before the meeting

Lynnwood Brown  11:06 AM
Ok, Regarding supporting members, from the articles:
11:07
“Supporting Members” are natural persons or legal bodies that support the Association’s purposes and make special contributions to the projects. They have the rights of Active Members except for any voting rights.
11:07
so basically all the same rights except for voting.
11:07
Active members are expected to participate in GA.
11:08
ok regarding change in status:

Michael Daum  11:08 AM
Right. But what's the procedure to change between active <-> supporting state? (edited) 

Lynnwood Brown  11:11 AM
"The group of Active Members will be reviewed by the Board once a year. If an Active Member (i) has not participated in two consecutive General Assembly meetings and has not exercised his or her voting rights by other means or (ii) has not paid the membership fees within a period of one month after the due date despite having received a reminder, the Active Member will be deleted by the Board from the list of Active Members and must reapply to be come an Active Member once again. In the meantime  he or she shall have the status of a Supporting Member. The decision shall be notified to the deleted Active Member by email. At least two months before the annual General Assembly the Board will update the Active Members list in accordance with the outcome of the review.
11:11
This suggest to me a couple of different emails. One to active members and one to "lapsed" members.
11:12
Besides general email to everyone encouraging participation and becoming active member if not currently.
11:12
What's not clear to me in that statement is what consitutes the "due date".
11:13
We have never set a due date that I can remember.

Wolfram Limper  11:13 AM
yep.
11:13
And that is the problem. We cannot set for the past.

Michael Daum  11:13 AM
The due date is part of the reminder notification, say within 2 weeks after receiving this mail or so.

Wolfram Limper  11:14 AM
Sounds good

Michael Daum  11:14 AM
any reasonable grace period will do. 2 weeks, maybe more.

Lynnwood Brown  11:15 AM
So perhaps this: we send out email soon with announcement for both meetings and due dates to pay dues. That will give us a due date after first meeting to do a complete member review prior to GA next year.

Michael Daum  11:16 AM
which both meetings? GA 2021 and 2022?

Lynnwood Brown  11:17 AM
The two meetings I am thinking of is 2nd 2021 extraord. GA in Sept as proposed by lavr and then 2022 GA in early 2022.

Michael Daum  11:17 AM
ah ok

Wolfram Limper  11:18 AM
Lets schedule these

Lynnwood Brown  11:18 AM
sounds good.

Michael Daum  11:18 AM
+1

Wolfram Limper  11:19 AM
20th of Sept for the 1st one?

Lynnwood Brown  11:19 AM
Seems to me that we usually hold these meeting on Friday.... but monday is ok by me as well.

Michael Daum  11:20 AM
Monday is as fine as Frinday 4me

Wolfram Limper  11:20 AM
I persoally have more energy on monday, except the blue ones

Lynnwood Brown  11:20 AM
the 20th is fine with me so let's go for it.

Wolfram Limper  11:20 AM
+1

Michael Daum  11:21 AM
+1

Wolfram Limper  11:21 AM
the time we started today?

Lynnwood Brown  11:21 AM
that is perfect for me. not sure about others...

Wolfram Limper  11:22 AM
here in GER it is just after normal working time, also ok.

Michael Daum  11:22 AM
We will see.

Lynnwood Brown  11:23 AM
is that a yes vote then Micha? :wink:
11:23
I'm open to other times if one is better.

Michael Daum  11:23 AM
yes I am totally fine with Monday, 20 Sep . What time?

Lynnwood Brown  11:23 AM
Proposal is 3pm UTC (5pm Hamburg Germany, 11am East Coast US)

Michael Daum  11:24 AM
perfect

Wolfram Limper  11:24 AM
+1

Lynnwood Brown  11:24 AM
great! Done.

Wolfram Limper  11:24 AM
This channel on slack?

Lynnwood Brown  11:24 AM
Now for GA 2022.
11:25
yes on channel

Michael Daum  11:25 AM
Wolfram, this channel is mirrored on irc as well.

Lynnwood Brown  11:25 AM
In last GA notes, it states "Next general assembly must be held early 2022. "
11:25
Not sure why the "must be" and can't remember how early in 2022 that means.

Wolfram Limper  11:25 AM
does this means Jannuary?

Lynnwood Brown  11:26 AM
maybe just because we've been slack on it this year...

Michael Daum  11:26 AM
early in the morning presumably ... as thats when coffee tasts best.

Lynnwood Brown  11:26 AM
:laughing:

Wolfram Limper  11:27 AM
:+1:

Lynnwood Brown  11:27 AM
So perhaps not too early in January. How about January 17th or 24th (both mondays)

Wolfram Limper  11:28 AM
fits for me

Lynnwood Brown  11:28 AM
the 17 is Fed holiday here, not that it matters much for most people.

Michael Daum  11:28 AM
That's fine. Was going to say not to plan for a January too early as some people might still be on vacation. 17th is fine with me.

Lynnwood Brown  11:28 AM
and certain not with our Euro-centric member base.

Michael Daum  11:29 AM
Might pay out both ways if it is a holiday

Lynnwood Brown  11:29 AM
Yea, it's not a big holiday when folks would travel but some might have day off.

Michael Daum  11:29 AM
some cannot come during workshift. some not because of family reasons.

Lynnwood Brown  11:29 AM
Martin Luther King day.

Wolfram Limper  11:30 AM
then lets go for the 24th?

Lynnwood Brown  11:30 AM
sounds good.

Wolfram Limper  11:30 AM
we do not need two options, is my opinion

Lynnwood Brown  11:30 AM
a little later into the new year sounds good.
11:30
agreed Wolfram. Let's go with the 24th.

Michael Daum  11:30 AM
I'd opt for Jan 24 2022 as well.

Lynnwood Brown  11:31 AM
Ok, I think we're in agreement: Jan 24, 2022.
11:31
And our annoucements need to go out 6 weeks in advance if i recall correctly.
11:32
is that right?
11:32
seems like long lead time...

Michael Daum  11:32 AM
I'll fix the financial statement 2021 for that date.

Lynnwood Brown  11:33 AM
reviewing articles about deadlines for announcments...
11:34
Yep: initial invitation is to go out 6 weeks in advance and then final agenda at least 1 week prior.

Wolfram Limper  11:35 AM
perfect. Then we can proceed to TOP 2, or has it been already clarified today?
11:35
idea/question: do we have an open items list for our board tasks? (edited) 

Lynnwood Brown  11:36 AM
So those deadlines are as follows:  August 9th for 2021 EGA invite &  December 13 for 2022 GA invite

Michael Daum  11:37 AM
Best would be to document our today's tasks in the minutes at https://foswiki.org/Community/AssociationBoardMinutes20210607

Wolfram Limper  11:37 AM
ok, fits for me

Lynnwood Brown  11:37 AM
yes, I can start adding those.

Michael Daum  11:38 AM
awesome
11:39
can we proceed to the next top?

Lynnwood Brown  11:39 AM
yes
11:39
i'm typing also...
11:40
i think we've addressed matter of current membership (and reminders). Just need to capture what we discussed.

Michael Daum  11:40 AM
okay take your time. no rush.

Lynnwood Brown  11:40 AM
Start in on discussion of 3rd item? Status of project

Wolfram Limper  11:42 AM
I’ve ha a look at the task teams now. Are they acting?

Michael Daum  11:42 AM
The idea of task teams is pretty much dead for a long time already.
11:43
It once was an attempt to scale the number of people working on the project ... which isnt an issue anymore :confused:

Lynnwood Brown  11:43 AM
sad but true.

Michael Daum  11:44 AM
yes thats right
11:44
for now anybody is free to do what he wants ... even a single contribution would be fine.
11:45
be it docu, testing, facilitating, blogging, being nice on irc. ... whatever.

Wolfram Limper  11:45 AM
I’m a listening member of “open source business alliance” here in GER. they have a marketing task force, which is acting pretty good. We could take this as an example, Michael and I could perhaps have a look at it.

Michael Daum  11:46 AM
anything I don't have to do would help.

Lynnwood Brown  11:46 AM
Agreed!
11:47
ok, think i've captured the notes on first 2 items discussed. please review and revise if i'm off.

Michael Daum  11:47 AM
from what I see we are almost set to release 2.1.7 ... and this is the most important issue blocking us from moving on.

Wolfram Limper  11:47 AM
OK, I agree, but we need volunteers to proceed, and a little motivation for them. I’m motivated ver well.

Michael Daum  11:47 AM
what would help most is testing 2.1.7
11:47
I see that it might be difficult to set up a dev env to get 2.1.7 up and running before it being released.
11:48
so I'd suggest to install it on foswiki.org directly and let people rock it.

Lynnwood Brown  11:48 AM
Do we have any suggestions for release testing process?
11:48
there's general testing of course. Are the unit test still very useful?

Michael Daum  11:48 AM
you mean besides running the unit tests?
11:49
of course they are.

Lynnwood Brown  11:49 AM
ok.

Michael Daum  11:49 AM
their coverage is not as tight as they could be. but writing new tests would be an awesome in its own.

Lynnwood Brown  11:49 AM
And testing on different platforms... at least the main ones.

Michael Daum  11:49 AM
which plattforms are you able to test?

Wolfram Limper  11:50 AM
How can I help, Michael?

Lynnwood Brown  11:50 AM
well... i mostly use ubuntu but could set up alternative virtual machines.
11:50
Plus also test on apache and nginx.
11:50
not sure how important that would be.

Michael Daum  11:51 AM
Nginx: this is a good point. Having an NginxConfigGenerator would be awesome.

Lynnwood Brown  11:51 AM
that would be. I could give it a try. I'm just getting to know Nginx.
11:51
maybe i'm not best but could start.

Michael Daum  11:51 AM
Ubuntu and Nginx is pretty much the standard env that I am using all day. Any other plattform besides that would be of help for sure.

Lynnwood Brown  11:52 AM
I hesitate to ask... do you think any/many are still using install on windows?

Michael Daum  11:52 AM
I am not sure we can cover MS Windows as a plattform, however.

Lynnwood Brown  11:52 AM
lol

Wolfram Limper  11:52 AM
and what about OS X

Michael Daum  11:53 AM
I don't have access to OS X at all

Wolfram Limper  11:53 AM
I have that

Lynnwood Brown  11:53 AM
Although i most use OSX, I've never done an direct forwiki install on one.

Michael Daum  11:53 AM
Have you, Wolfram?

Lynnwood Brown  11:53 AM
At least that I can remember.... maybe early one.
11:54
I like to keep foswiki installs on lean and clear OS install.
11:54
lean and clean...

Wolfram Limper  11:54 AM
Yes I am using my Mac all day, and I have installed there another ubuntu application

Michael Daum  11:54 AM
okay, I assume both plattforms - MS Windows as well as OSX - being an interesting expereince ... but what is the gain of it? Not sure...

Lynnwood Brown  11:55 AM
Is it worth/valuable to do test on alternative Linux distribution. Seens like there would be little variation there except for how dependencies are installed (and possibly versions)

Michael Daum  11:55 AM
The other "plattform" to test is (a) docker and (b) virtual image installs
11:55
Tim did (a), I've created a new take on building a vm using vagrant.

Lynnwood Brown  11:56 AM
so certainly are useful for helping folks get up and running quickly.

Michael Daum  11:56 AM
yes.
11:56
I'd suggest to streamline both and make them alternative installers mentioned on the download page of foswiki.

Wolfram Limper  11:57 AM
and also if we have it for OSX as well.
11:57
For me the gain is to have the possibilit to work offline

Michael Daum  11:57 AM
https://github.com/MichaelDaum/vagrant-foswiki
MichaelDaum/vagrant-foswiki
A VM to install Foswiki
Website
https://foswiki.org
Stars
1
Added by GitHub
11:58
https://github.com/timlegge/docker-foswiki
timlegge/docker-foswiki
Dockerized foswiki + nginx at port 80
Stars
13
Language
Dockerfile
Added by GitHub

Lynnwood Brown  11:58 AM
Actually... if we could get a docker and/or VM vagrant prepared for 2.1.7 and then send out invite for testing - that might be best option to get some wider testing.

Michael Daum  11:58 AM
... as well as running foswiki.org on 2.1.7

Lynnwood Brown  11:58 AM
Easiest way for folks to get test install up and running to test.
11:59
Sweet!

Michael Daum  12:00 PM
Both, Tim's docker image as well as my vagrant installer are running Foswiki on alpine linux ... so one plattform more to tick off.
12:00
Though, I see the vagrant installer more moving back to an ubuntu base again...
12:02
Looking at the Dockerfile https://github.com/timlegge/docker-foswiki/blob/master/Dockerfile, it needs a bit of a tweak to install 2.1.7 with it ... for one, it needs a 2.1.7 tar ball to be downloadeable.
Dockerfile
```
FROM alpine:edge
ENV PERL_MM_USE_DEFAULT 1
ENV FOSWIKI_LATEST_URL https://github.com/foswiki/distro/releases/download/FoswikiRelease02x01x06/Foswiki-2.1.6.tgz
ENV FOSWIKI_LATEST_MD5 706fc6bf1fa6df6bfbe8a079c5007aa3
ENV FOSWIKI_LATEST Foswiki-2.1.6
RUN rm -rf /var/cache/apk/* && \
   rm -rf /tmp/* && \
   sed -n 's/main/testing/p' /etc/apk/repositories >> /etc/apk/repositories && \
   apk update && \
Show more
<https://github.com/timlegge/docker-foswiki|timlegge/docker-foswiki>timlegge/docker-foswiki | Added by GitHub

Wolfram Limper  12:04 PM
Sorry, I’m lost. The topic was “status of project”

Michael Daum  12:05 PM
Status of the Project -> Status of the next Release -> Get more testing done -> Use docker or vagrant for testing

Lynnwood Brown  12:05 PM
yea, we drifted into discussion of top current priority of testing 2.1.7 release candidate.
12:05
I've captured some notes on this in meeting page. Please refresh and check it out.

Wolfram Limper  12:05 PM
ok, thx

Lynnwood Brown  12:07 PM
Wolfram - going back to your comments about OSX, I mostly use VMs in having Foswiki in local install.
12:08
I use parallels just because i need it for work (accessing windows) and am use to it, but i've also done Docker and vagrant with fair ease.
12:08
of course those are better for being free.

Wolfram Limper  12:10 PM
ok, maybe we can discuss this later/off topic.

Lynnwood Brown  12:10 PM
Thinking back in deep history when i did do direct install of foswiki on Mac, i think i ran into some trouble with getting correct versions of perl modules.
12:10
ok
12:11
Shall we move on to "regular release meetings"?

Michael Daum  12:11 PM
maybe you both can get your hands on installing foswiki either real metal or virtual. and we can further discuss and provide help during the next release meeting.
12:12
yes, fits well.

Lynnwood Brown  12:12 PM
The meetings have been regular I think, only the attendees have been irregular... :wink:
12:12
Sounds good to me.

Michael Daum  12:12 PM
I am on irc all day ... as it was the recent 20 years ... haha gawd.

Lynnwood Brown  12:13 PM
I will try at least. I have family house guest this week and then am heading to beach next week.
12:13
the years they do slip by... been a long time...

Michael Daum  12:13 PM
so I once gave people a ping on the release channel waiting for an echo ... without so much of a response.
12:14
I did try to encourage people to come to the RMs, during the last GA, on the blog, well.

Wolfram Limper  12:15 PM
Michael, could you please ping me on release channel, as I have updated my notofication settings in slack?

Lynnwood Brown  12:15 PM
We could perhaps include another invite to RM within email to encourage testing of release.

Michael Daum  12:15 PM
how about you add the FoswikiCalendar to yours?
12:15
there's an ical here: https://foswiki.org/Development/FoswikiCalendar
12:16
so better dont rely on me pinging you. your calendar is a better fit for that purpose.

Wolfram Limper  12:16 PM
ok, I have that already in my calendar.

Lynnwood Brown  12:17 PM
I just turned on in slack notices on comments in RM. I'll make a point of noting my presence whether or not there's much activities at the time.

Wolfram Limper  12:17 PM
me2

Michael Daum  12:18 PM
this is somewhat related to TOP 6

Lynnwood Brown  12:18 PM
Do we need anything more on TOP 5?

Michael Daum  12:19 PM
yes for sure
12:20
are we done with TOP 4 (release meetings)?

Lynnwood Brown  12:20 PM
I just added a couple of notes there...

Michael Daum  12:21 PM
... "exchange installer experience"

Lynnwood Brown  12:22 PM
updated again and included link to calendar - schedule of release meetings.

Wolfram Limper  12:23 PM
If it is helpful, I could attend the release-Meetings, but to be honest, I cannot contribute

Michael Daum  12:25 PM
not even running a vagrant/parallels installer?

1 reply
Today at 12:26 PMView thread

Lynnwood Brown  12:25 PM
On TOP 5, do we need/want some prospective release date?

Michael Daum  12:26 PM
we can release 2.1.7 anytime soon. however we need to replease plan 2.2.0 and what comes afterwards.
12:27
i.e. we need to move foswiki to the next stage ... whatever that means.

Lynnwood Brown  12:28 PM
would you like to discuss 2.2.0 now further?

Michael Daum  12:28 PM
I'd like to discuss moving Foswiki to NatSkin

Lynnwood Brown  12:28 PM
like put out target date... for whatever that's worth.
12:28
Just to give us target.

Michael Daum  12:28 PM
I'd like to discuss showcasing the best Foswiki possible on foswiki.org ... not the lowest denominator.

Lynnwood Brown  12:29 PM
I wholly support move to NatSkin as it's qualitatively better user experience.
12:29
Agreed.

Michael Daum  12:29 PM
the point is: we cannot sell foswiki anymore like it is now, not with PatternSkin, not with an editor as it is now.

Lynnwood Brown  12:30 PM
Ah - realize you're referring to f.o. not default install.

Michael Daum  12:30 PM
both

Wolfram Limper  12:30 PM
I support that. From sales department view you cannnot show it to potential customers without lengthy explanations.

Lynnwood Brown  12:30 PM
There will likely be some push back from those who like minimum install/requirements but i think it's the way to go.

Wolfram Limper  12:31 PM
I work all days several hours with NatSkin, and I’m happy with this.

Michael Daum  12:31 PM
from what I see, it is an "all in" situation to come close to other projects ... surpassing them as we go.

Lynnwood Brown  12:31 PM
I have been thinking of doing video of base install +NatSkin to help people get got installation.
12:32
(VM's reduce need for this) but I have long felt it important to encourage anyone using foswiki to also go with NatSkin.

Michael Daum  12:32 PM
what I would like to bring forth as well is the WikiWorkbench framework to standardize wiki apps.

Lynnwood Brown  12:33 PM
ok, i support that also... but not sure i'm typical user in that regard.

Wolfram Limper  12:33 PM
I volunteer for testing the video as I have an ubuntu 20.04 pc and it needs foswiki with natskin…

Lynnwood Brown  12:33 PM
I see your reasoning there to build app community and agree.

Michael Daum  12:33 PM
infact Foswiki is much more of an app framework than a wiki.
12:33
and we need to promote this fact more.

Lynnwood Brown  12:33 PM
That is always what I think of it as and speak of it as.
12:34
100% agree

Wolfram Limper  12:34 PM
yes

Michael Daum  12:34 PM
okay, so here is what I'd like to do:

Lynnwood Brown  12:35 PM
Would it be appropriate to use some release meeting to discuss idea of moving to NatSkin on f.o. and distribution? Would certainly engendered some participation i think...
12:35
Send out announcement specifically to that end.

Michael Daum  12:36 PM
(1) install 2.1.7 on foswiki.org (2) release 2.1.7 (3) release NatSkin and companion plugins (4) move foswiki.org to Nginx (5) install NatSkin on foswiki.org (6) install SolrPlugin on foswiki.org

Lynnwood Brown  12:36 PM
Wohoo!
12:36
Would our hosting service do ok with Solr?

Michael Daum  12:37 PM
absolutely

Lynnwood Brown  12:37 PM
lovely

Wolfram Limper  12:37 PM
On my ubuntu server at Hetzner it works fine

Michael Daum  12:37 PM
merge the two foswikies running on the server into one, that is run blog.foswiki.org and foswiki.org on one and the same foswiki.

Wolfram Limper  12:37 PM
since ages

Lynnwood Brown  12:38 PM
btw, quite aside: I am currently updating a bunch of installation from Ubuntu 16.04 to 20.04. Other then a couple of gotchas, upgrade was very smooth with Foswiki. Solr took a bit more tweaking.

Michael Daum  12:38 PM
the load on foswiki.org will be lower due to the fact that a lot of queries won't need to bash it using grep.

Lynnwood Brown  12:39 PM
I'm going to have to move towards wrapping pretty soon...

Michael Daum  12:40 PM
alright. so I take away that you are both happy with that approach?

Lynnwood Brown  12:40 PM
Got guest arriving in a couple of hours and wife is after me to do last minute week-eating. (Beating back verdant growth is full time job in these parts doing this time of year.)

Wolfram Limper  12:40 PM
yes.

Lynnwood Brown  12:41 PM
Yes, I like it alot. (again, not 100% we're representative of community as whole... really don't know)

Michael Daum  12:41 PM
I've kept back for too long already.
12:42
okay. thanks. then.
12:42
lets quickly talk about TOP 6 then

Wolfram Limper  12:42 PM
what are our options?

Lynnwood Brown  12:42 PM
Any idea how much effort this will entail? I haven't looked into it much.
12:43
Either of those services seem ok at first glance.

Michael Daum  12:43 PM
I've looked into element.io ... and had some serious usability problems with its webclient
12:43
I am pretty sure it is not fit for purpose.

Wolfram Limper  12:43 PM
and could we install it native on foswiki.org?

Michael Daum  12:43 PM
no
12:44
nor did we install any irc server on foswiki.org

Lynnwood Brown  12:44 PM
So libera.chat is main candidate?

Michael Daum  12:44 PM
I guess so, yes.

Wolfram Limper  12:44 PM
what I mean is to use the blog app there, so we need no third party tool

Michael Daum  12:44 PM
a lot of other projects have switch over silently... such as dokuwiki for one.

Lynnwood Brown  12:45 PM
does it require rejiggering of ircbot or irc/slask bot?
12:46
or complete redo of those? or easy switch?

Michael Daum  12:46 PM
yes most probably. they say, libera is a drop in replacement to freenode. not sure what this means other than switching the irc server in your favorite client.

Lynnwood Brown  12:46 PM
that sounds good.

Wolfram Limper  12:46 PM
is there the need to migrate all the past 20 years??

Lynnwood Brown  12:46 PM
I have used the irc bot that archive to search old message. Have not tried that in Slack.

Michael Daum  12:46 PM
we do have a few things that need to be taken care of. cloaks, op rights, channel ownership, web client, stuff like that.
12:47
Wolfram, not really, the current irclogger already archived the channels.

Wolfram Limper  12:48 PM
irclogger in foswiki.org?

Lynnwood Brown  12:48 PM
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Migrating_to_Libera_Chat

Michael Daum  12:48 PM
but before we decide on leaving freenode and when, do you actually agree on leaving freenode at all?
12:48
or do you rather think we can as well stay on freenode?

Lynnwood Brown  12:48 PM
Wolfram - yes, that's what I was thinking of: irclogger

Wolfram Limper  12:48 PM
from what I read so far, yes

Michael Daum  12:48 PM
whats your opinions?

Lynnwood Brown  12:49 PM
I scanned the letter you posted and didn't get much more then gist of controversy. Doesn't sound promising and possibly distasteful... so i'm good with moving on.

Wolfram Limper  12:50 PM
I’m open, my choice would be libera…

Lynnwood Brown  12:50 PM
Always hard to dig down to get what really came down...
12:50
I guess we should document a plan for transition to make sure we aren't missing something.

Michael Daum  12:51 PM
there's the other side as well, like https://freenode.net/news/for-foss
freenode.netfreenode.net
freenode exists for FOSS - freenode
freenode.net - Supporting Free and Open Source Software Communities since 1998

Lynnwood Brown  12:51 PM
yea... there usually another side

Michael Daum  12:52 PM
another source of bg info: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409

Lynnwood Brown  12:52 PM
perhaps we should hold off on decision given we have other fish to fry and a bit of time might reveal more about the actual substance of claims.

Michael Daum  12:53 PM
let me propose to postpone the decision until you had time to sharpen your pov on the matter.

Wolfram Limper  12:53 PM
agree

Michael Daum  12:53 PM
^snap

Lynnwood Brown  12:53 PM
:slightly_smiling_face:
12:53
ok. Agreed.

Michael Daum  12:54 PM
there is no real need for a rush other than the ethical foss implications ... but meh :wink:
12:54
some german news about the matter: https://www.heise.de/news/IRC-Netz-Freenode-ist-tot-es-lebe-Libera-Chat-6050724.html
iX MagaziniX Magazin
IRC-Netz: Freenode ist tot – es lebe Libera Chat!
Nach internen Verwerfungen hat das Entwicklerteam des IRC-Netzes Freenode das Projekt verlassen. Mit Libera Chat haben sie bereits einen Nachfolger initiiert. (66 kB)
https://www.heise.de/news/IRC-Netz-Freenode-ist-tot-es-lebe-Libera-Chat-6050724.html

12:56
okay. looking forward to hear from you on the matter and the other action points in one of the next RMs or on a daily pop-in on irc ....?

Lynnwood Brown  12:57 PM
Did some more updates on notes. included last couple of topics and added some links regarding irc controversies.
12:58
Feel free to revise/refine. I think i've got the sense of meeting.

Michael Daum  12:58 PM
did some minor tweaks

Lynnwood Brown  12:58 PM
Good. Are we about wrapped or is there something else that needs our attention today?

Michael Daum  12:59 PM
last point: when do we meet next?

Wolfram Limper  12:59 PM
Mid of July?

Lynnwood Brown  12:59 PM
Sounds good to me.

Wolfram Limper  1:00 PM
12th of July?
:+1::skin-tone-2:
1


Michael Daum  1:00 PM
once a month would be awesome

Lynnwood Brown  1:00 PM
i intend to follow up meeting note follow-up items (and schedule).

Wolfram Limper  1:00 PM
would be nice for me as well

Lynnwood Brown  1:00 PM
will add those to topic.
1:00
July 12 at same time is fine with me.

Wolfram Limper  1:01 PM
perfect!
:clap::skin-tone-2:
1


Lynnwood Brown  1:01 PM
Added under followup

Wolfram Limper  1:02 PM
was a nice meeting, thanks. I’m impressed of having  the minutes almost ready as we close .

Lynnwood Brown  1:02 PM
Very good. I've got to run. Thanks gentlemen. Good meeting!

Michael Daum  1:02 PM
then have a nice evening. cheers.

Wolfram Limper  1:02 PM
See you on IRC soon!!
Topic revision: r8 - 07 Jun 2021, MichaelDaum
The copyright of the content on this website is held by the contributing authors, except where stated elsewhere. See Copyright Statement. Creative Commons License    Legal Imprint    Privacy Policy